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From Sylvain Wallez <sylv...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [RT] Is Cocoon Obsolete?
Date Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:43:03 GMT
Jorg Heymans wrote:

>Luca Morandini wrote:
>  
>
>>Consider: 1) Declining cocoon-users activity.
>>    
>>
>This worries me as well, especially the last couple of months it has
>become very obvious [1].
>
>"Why?" you might ask:
>Is the framework stable? Have most issues been solved/answered already?
>Does everything Just Work(tm) and we only have happy users? Or are
>people silently jumping ship?
>  
>

Yup. That's a question I have myself.

>>2) Reduced attendance (so far) to GetTogether (and it shouldn't be, 
>>since Amsterdam is a more accessible, if less fascinating, location).
>>    
>>
>
>possibly an artifact of 1) yes. It's strange enough to say the least.
>Maybe the topics weren't interesting enough for normal joe-user?
>  
>
>>3) Struts being more and more popular.
>>    
>>
>
>often discussed here, very true - as much as we hate (to admit) it
>  
>

Is it really more popular now than it was before? Struts always has been 
the defacto standard controller in J2EE webapps.

>>My 0.02 EUR: I think Cocoon will remain a "niche" framework, used for
>>complex applications and/or by gifted developers.
>>    
>>
>
>Yup, and that's exactly the niche we need to get out of.
>
><marketing type="idea">
>Lets do a video like Rails [2], a picture says more than a thousand
>words, a video more than a thousand pictures! WDOT? Can something like
>this put us to shame or work in our advantage?
></marketing>
>  
>

Currently, we cannot make an equivalent in 5 minutes. We need code 
generation tools, which is one of the reasons for which RoR is so 
productive. Cocoon is "just" a framework and comes naked: it's up to you 
to write everything by assembling the (high-level) components it 
provides. Now there's a large range of CRUD-type webapps that always use 
the same patterns and where code generation may definitely save time.

So videos for now will be limited to some demos where things have been 
prepared in advance (e.g. a standard cforms sitemap).

What we can do quickly however, is to setup a live version of the latest 
snapshot at cocoon.zones.apache.org besides the latest official release. 
A topic for the hackaton?

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                        Anyware Technologies
http://people.apache.org/~sylvain     http://www.anyware-tech.com
Apache Software Foundation Member     Research & Technology Director


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