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From Upayavira ...@odoko.co.uk>
Subject Re: Bricks example app in our whiteboard, WDYT?
Date Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:47:42 GMT
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Le 19 sept. 05, à 11:27, Upayavira a écrit :
> 
>> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>
>>> ...The app uses all ASF components: Hivemind, OJB and Derby, so 
>>> licenses are clean (some non-ASL things will be downloaded from 
>>> ibiblio at build time, with an appropriate warning).
>>
>>
>> What non-ASL things?
> 
> 
> Those that hivemind requires, and which it downloads in the same way 
> already.
> 
> Actually I'm not even sure  if any of these dependencies have licenses 
> that we couldn't distribute, I was thinking about javassist but I just 
> checked and it's MPL/LGPL dual-license 
> (http://www.jboss.org/products/javassist).
> 
> But I think I'm going to do as hivemind does and download these things 
> at build time for convenience and to avoid any legal problems.
> 
>> ...I don't believe we're yet in a position to supply software which 
>> downloads non-ASF components from elsewhere...
> 
> 
> We have a few cases already (mail block for example) where users must 
> download non-ASL stuff themselves, so what's the problem with making 
> this semi-automatic, as long as we don't distribute these things ourselves?
> 
> This is what hivemind does (http://jakarta.apache.org/hivemind/), but 
> with a very prominent warning at build time: a disclaimer is displayed 
> and the build only continues if you type the word "continue". That's 
> what I mean by "semi-automatic", people have to explicitely agree before 
> the download proceeds.

I find that surprising - given the current ambiguity with 'linking' to 
code in Java, there is a danger that you taint yourself simply by having 
import statements in your code.

In that case, a build time disclaimer doesn't help you at all.

Secondly, using this technique makes something of a farce of the ASL, 
IMO. If your ASL licenced code won't work at all without some 
incompatibly licenced code, how can you _honestly_ argue that your code 
is ASL licensed?

But, this is something that I should, if I feel so inclined, take up 
with the HiveMind folks, not yourself, as, if they resolved their issue, 
yours would be resolved too.

> IMHO this is in line with our current policies, don't you think so?

:-) Actually, I don't!

>>  ...Having said that, putting something into SVN isn't strictly 
>> "releasing" software, but we do need to be aware of what we're putting 
>> in....

> Sure, hence my intention to mimick what hivemind does and not put the 
> libraries that it requires in SVN.

But we'd be putting code that 'links' to it, which is just as dangerous 
(at least until the board makes any statements to the contrary).

>> ...I am keen to see stuff put onto the whiteboard - I'm curious to see 
>> where it takes us from here...
> 
> Thanks, so am I of course ;-)

I still stick by the above statement, even if I am being difficult in 
relation to licencing!

Regards, Upayavira

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