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From Ralph Goers <>
Subject Re: 2.1.8 (Was: Re: JING Transformer...)
Date Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:36:48 GMT
Pier Fumagalli wrote:

> I agree wholeheartedly... My personal problem is that we don't  
> release often enough, and in maintaining my system, too many things  
> change from one release to another... 2.1.5 was released 2 years ago  
> now and that's what I use on production.
> There are "non-trivial" changes, they do affect a lot the performance/ 
> functionality of my sites, so, for me to switch to current head (or  
> latest release), I need to do a quite extensive test to see if it  
> actually works...
> So far, what I've done is that internally I "forked" 2.1.5 and back- 
> porting certain fixes I need, that guarantees me a smooth (and well  
> known) upgrade path...
> It'd be nice to have a release every month or two, with minimal  
> changes, so that one can easily spot what changes, and if something  
> breaks, identify easily what needs to be fixed...

Actually, I don't disagree with any of the above. I'm all for frequent 
releases. A quick look shows that the 2.1 branch has had releases on 
average ever 3.4 months. However, there have only been 2 releases within 
the last year. We had 4 releases in the first 3 months when 2.1 was 
delivered. We've had 4 releases since then (about 22 months).

> So, even if cforms are still unstable, frankly, 2.1.8 shouldn't be  
> blocked by it at all...

I don't agree with this though.  Sooner or later someone has to say 
enough is enough already.  The issue isn't the frequency of releases. 
The issue is simply a matter of time.

I don't recall how long "Woody" was in development - I'm sure a lot of 
you can recall though.  However, Woody was renamed Cocoon forms and 
brought in as the Forms block in 2.1.5 - which was over a year ago.  
That, by itself, implied some level of stabalization. Since that time 
from the activity on the user's list it has become obvious to me that 
CForms is one of the most actively used parts of Cocoon. Now in February 
it was agreed that CForms would be marked stable in 2.2.  However, I 
don't believe anyone thought that 2.2 would have a release date of 
mid-2006 or later, which is what we are looking at now.  And frankly, I 
can't wait that long. My employer REQUIRES a stable forms framework, 
therefore I require a Cocoon release with a stable forms framework.  The 
fact is that if someone makes changes now that breaks compatibility in 
CForms, at this point they are probably going to need to be reverted 
anyway as too many people would be affected. 

So what I am really saying is that the CForms block is already in a 
position where it HAS to be considered stable and pretty much has been 
for quite a while. I simply don't understand the aversion to admitting 
that. Just mark it stable and be done with it.

BTW - I don't have a problem with folks adding new features like Ajax to 
CForms.  From what I can tell it looks like when these things are added 
great care is being taken not to break anything.


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