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From Mark Leicester <>
Subject Re: Planet Cocoon license and reuse of docs
Date Tue, 24 May 2005 15:29:22 GMT
Hi Ross,

Thank you very much for you offer, and for your interest in helping us 
achieve our goals. I shall renew my membership of the Forrest mailing 
list and we can continue this potentially very fruitful discussion 
there. Sébastien, it sounds like Ross is more than willing to help us 
achieve the goals (#3 and #5 at least) that you outlined in your post 

Best regards,

On 24 May 2005, at 16:15, Ross Gardler wrote:

> Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
>> 2005/5/24, Ross Gardler <>:
>>> Mark Leicester wrote:
>>>> Hello Bertrand,
>>>> On 24 May 2005, at 12:20, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>>>> Le 24 mai 05, à 11:36, Ross Gardler a écrit :
>>>>>> ...For example:
>>>>>> is
>>>>> Which I find very disappointing: I fail to see the point of copying
>>>>> content from our docs on other websites.
>>> ...
>>>> To kick this debate off, let's firstly define the problem. Are we
>>>> concerned with the problems that arise from forking documentation? 
>>>> Or,
>>>> are we trying to restrict the numbers of sources of information?
>>> I think would speak for everyone when I say the concern is in forking
>>> the documentation effort.
>>>> A technical solution might be to offer RSS feeds from the Apache 
>>>> site.
>>>> Cocoon distributions and satellite sites like Planet Cocoon could 
>>>> then
>>>> "phone home" for the latest documentation.
>>> Which is exactly why I have invited you over to the Forrest dev list 
>>> so
>>> that we can help you build a plugin that will enable you to achieve 
>>> your
>>> goals *without* forking the documentation. Forrest is currently the
>>> chosen documentation platform here. One of its great strengths is the
>>> ability to bring together documentation from various sources.
>>> I'm not at all sure if the Cocoon project will want to go this way, 
>>> but
>>> I propose we create a solution, demonstrate it and then ask for 
>>> comments
>>> and suggestions here.
> ...
>>   And now you seem to want to redirect all the output of
>> PlanetCocoon to Forrest just to be sure it remains the only
>> documentation channel.
> You have completely missed my point. I think you ought to read that 
> the above again. I am offering to assist Mark in what he says he wants 
> to do, just to be clear I will quote Mark again (from above):
> "A technical solution might be to offer RSS feeds from the Apache site.
> Cocoon distributions and satellite sites like Planet Cocoon could then
> "phone home" for the latest documentation."
> That is about making official Cocoon docs available to PlanetCocoon in 
> a form that prevents the need to fork them.
> In a previous mail (in this same thread) I offered to create a plugin 
> for Forrest that would allow docs on PlanetCocoon to be seemlesly 
> incorporated into the official Cocoon docs. This offer was made 
> because the PlanetCocoon home page says "Every effort will be made to 
> ensure that information generated on Planet Cocoon will end up in the 
> official documentation."
> I'm only trying to make it possible for PlantCocoon to do what it 
> wants to do with the minimum of effort.
>> And there are things that Forrest
>> doesn't provide and that we intend to provide on Planet Cocoon. And I
>> really don't see the problem with that.
> That is not the problem as I percieve it. The problem is the forking 
> of the *existing* documentation. Forking is *bad* for any project.
> My proposal is to enable PlanetCocoon to continue its work without 
> forking the existing work *and* achieving its goal of donating 
> valuable content back to the Cocoon project.
>> What I mean is that (and it's my personal opinion) the way I see it,
>> Forrest will be one possible output for our documentation and we will
>> do whatever it takes to make it compatible.
> Nobody is objecting to that. I am one person offering to assist with 
> your integration into the existing Forrest generated docs and the 
> integration of the existing Forrest docs into your site. I fail to see 
> what your problem is.
> > But if Forrest remains the only output,
>> if we have to limit ourselves technically to fit in the frame of
>> Forrest and the "everything Apache" rule of thumb, it's not
>> interesting for me.
> Please read my earlier post again in which I say that I am not asking 
> you to create a "Forrest compatible" format, I am asking for either a 
> valide XML feed or a (X)HTML document without the navigation and other 
> decoration. At no point have I, or anyone else, said you can't do what 
> you are doing.
> There is resistence to forking the documentation effort (meaning 
> taking the existing documents and community resources and reproducing 
> them elsewhere under a different banner). This particular thread is 
> about enabling PlanetCocoon to proceed with its admirable efforts to 
> regenerate the documentation effort whilst preventing the need to fork 
> existing work.
> It is called integration.
> Ross
> Ross

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