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From Mark Leicester <>
Subject Re: Mailing list statistics
Date Thu, 19 May 2005 09:14:48 GMT
Hi Sylvain,

Yes, now I see and understand the differentiation you are making. Thank 
you for taking the time to explain your reservations so carefully. I 
appreciate all list members' time in considering and responding these 
ideas. I'm very interested in community engineering and there's no 
better place to ask and learn than in a community like Cocoon's. Idea 


On 19 May 2005, at 09:07, Sylvain Wallez wrote:

> Mark Leicester wrote:
>>> But I see Mark's aims with the hall of fame more as a measurement 
>>> tool for community participation than a way for people to show off. 
>>> And in that way it can be considered to be a valuable resource. The 
>>> problem however is that the raw number of posts says nothing about 
>>> their quality, starting by not being able to distinguish questions 
>>> and answers. The "rounds of applause" as I understand it is a way 
>>> for people to express their gratefulness to people that helped them.
>> Yes Sylvain, this is what I am proposing: another (more measurable) 
>> way for people to express their gratefulness to people that have 
>> helped them. Is anyone else a user of 43things (see 
>> The 43things "cheers" are a lovely example 
>> of this kind of thing, where people have a simple mechanism to 
>> encourage others. Read about cheers here: 
>> The cheer carries no 
>> weight other than encouragement. The idea of 'targets', that is, 
>> collect 100 "rounds of applause" and progress to a notional 'next 
>> level', are optional.
> Mark, you misunderstood (and snipped) the essence of my reply: 
> distributing "bonus points" to people is a bad thing. And it's also 
> not what 43things provide.
> 43things (just tried it this morning) allows people to list or propose 
> things to do, and others to support them in doing these things. So 
> this isn't the people that are given applauses, but ideas that are 
> given support.
> And this is radically different from a community dynamics point of 
> view, as it doesn't provide a way for people to show off, but a way to 
> identify and prioritize good ideas that come out of the community. 
> This is actually similar to bugzilla entries of type "enhancement" on 
> which people can vote, with a way more shiny GUI that makes it a 
> usable tool (but bugzilla is far from good in this regard).
> This is something I already outlined in several blog entries ([1] and 
> [2]): the community is about collective thinking and supporting ideas 
> proposed by people. The one(s) that actually implement the idea are 
> those that either have time or most need it, and the result is owned 
> by the group.
> So having a "wanted features" or RT classification system is 
> interesting, even if it overlaps with a less usable similar feature 
> provided by the ASF infrastructure (BTW, what about Jira?). But having 
> a people gratification system is a very different thing that is really 
> not good.
> Sylvain
> [1]
> [2]
> -- 
> Sylvain Wallez                        Anyware Technologies
> Apache Software Foundation Member     Research & Technology Director

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