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From Sebastien Arbogast <sebastien.arbog...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Planet Cocoon license and reuse of docs
Date Tue, 24 May 2005 15:28:55 GMT
2005/5/24, Ross Gardler <rgardler@apache.org>:
> Sebastien Arbogast wrote:
> > 2005/5/24, Ross Gardler <rgardler@apache.org>:
> >
> >>Mark Leicester wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hello Bertrand,
> >>>
> >>>On 24 May 2005, at 12:20, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Le 24 mai 05, à 11:36, Ross Gardler a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>...For example:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>http://www.planetcocoon.com/node/1209
> >>>>>
> >>>>>is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/tutorial/tutorial-generator.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Which I find very disappointing: I fail to see the point of copying
> >>>>content from our docs on other websites.
> >>
> >>...
> >>
> >>
> >>>To kick this debate off, let's firstly define the problem. Are we
> >>>concerned with the problems that arise from forking documentation? Or,
> >>>are we trying to restrict the numbers of sources of information?
> >>
> >>I think would speak for everyone when I say the concern is in forking
> >>the documentation effort.
> >>
> >>
> >>>A technical solution might be to offer RSS feeds from the Apache site.
> >>>Cocoon distributions and satellite sites like Planet Cocoon could then
> >>>"phone home" for the latest documentation.
> >>
> >>Which is exactly why I have invited you over to the Forrest dev list so
> >>that we can help you build a plugin that will enable you to achieve your
> >>goals *without* forking the documentation. Forrest is currently the
> >>chosen documentation platform here. One of its great strengths is the
> >>ability to bring together documentation from various sources.
> >>
> >>I'm not at all sure if the Cocoon project will want to go this way, but
> >>I propose we create a solution, demonstrate it and then ask for comments
> >>and suggestions here.
> >>
> ...
> 
> >   And now you seem to want to redirect all the output of
> > PlanetCocoon to Forrest just to be sure it remains the only
> > documentation channel.
> 
> You have completely missed my point. I think you ought to read that the
> above again. I am offering to assist Mark in what he says he wants to
> do, just to be clear I will quote Mark again (from above):
> 
> "A technical solution might be to offer RSS feeds from the Apache site.
> Cocoon distributions and satellite sites like Planet Cocoon could then
> "phone home" for the latest documentation."
> 
> That is about making official Cocoon docs available to PlanetCocoon in a
> form that prevents the need to fork them.
> 
> In a previous mail (in this same thread) I offered to create a plugin
> for Forrest that would allow docs on PlanetCocoon to be seemlesly
> incorporated into the official Cocoon docs. This offer was made because
> the PlanetCocoon home page says "Every effort will be made to ensure
> that information generated on Planet Cocoon will end up in the official
> documentation."
> 
> I'm only trying to make it possible for PlantCocoon to do what it wants
> to do with the minimum of effort.
> 
> > And there are things that Forrest
> > doesn't provide and that we intend to provide on Planet Cocoon. And I
> > really don't see the problem with that.
> 
> That is not the problem as I percieve it. The problem is the forking of
> the *existing* documentation. Forking is *bad* for any project.
> 
> My proposal is to enable PlanetCocoon to continue its work without
> forking the existing work *and* achieving its goal of donating valuable
> content back to the Cocoon project.
> 
> > What I mean is that (and it's my personal opinion) the way I see it,
> > Forrest will be one possible output for our documentation and we will
> > do whatever it takes to make it compatible.
> 
> Nobody is objecting to that. I am one person offering to assist with
> your integration into the existing Forrest generated docs and the
> integration of the existing Forrest docs into your site. I fail to see
> what your problem is.
> 
>  > But if Forrest remains the only output,
> > if we have to limit ourselves technically to fit in the frame of
> > Forrest and the "everything Apache" rule of thumb, it's not
> > interesting for me.
> 
> Please read my earlier post again in which I say that I am not asking
> you to create a "Forrest compatible" format, I am asking for either a
> valide XML feed or a (X)HTML document without the navigation and other
> decoration. At no point have I, or anyone else, said you can't do what
> you are doing.
> 
> There is resistence to forking the documentation effort (meaning taking
> the existing documents and community resources and reproducing them
> elsewhere under a different banner). This particular thread is about
> enabling PlanetCocoon to proceed with its admirable efforts to
> regenerate the documentation effort whilst preventing the need to fork
> existing work.
> 
> It is called integration.
> 
> Ross

OK I'm sorry Ross. I'm really sorry. You're right I completely missed
your point and I apologize for that. It's just that we've encountered
so much resistance at the beginning that I've come to be a little
aggressive (especially when I wake up in the morning ;-P) and let my
young impulsiveness speak on behalf of myself.

I hadn't understood "forking" in the way you do and I eventually like
the way you see things. I'm sure I'm speaking for both of us (Mark and
I) when I say we'll be glad to work with you and *integrate* your
offer.

People's support, Cocoon PMC attention, Forrest guys interest and
things getting done on Planet Cocoon... everything seems to take its
shape and it's really exciting :-)

-- 
Sebastien ARBOGAST

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