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From Sebastien Arbogast <>
Subject Re: Planet Cocoon license and reuse of docs
Date Tue, 24 May 2005 14:06:04 GMT
2005/5/24, Ross Gardler <>:
> Mark Leicester wrote:
> > Hello Bertrand,
> >
> > On 24 May 2005, at 12:20, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> >
> >> Le 24 mai 05, à 11:36, Ross Gardler a écrit :
> >>
> >>> ...For example:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Which I find very disappointing: I fail to see the point of copying
> >> content from our docs on other websites.
> ...
> > To kick this debate off, let's firstly define the problem. Are we
> > concerned with the problems that arise from forking documentation? Or,
> > are we trying to restrict the numbers of sources of information?
> I think would speak for everyone when I say the concern is in forking
> the documentation effort.
> > A technical solution might be to offer RSS feeds from the Apache site.
> > Cocoon distributions and satellite sites like Planet Cocoon could then
> > "phone home" for the latest documentation.
> Which is exactly why I have invited you over to the Forrest dev list so
> that we can help you build a plugin that will enable you to achieve your
> goals *without* forking the documentation. Forrest is currently the
> chosen documentation platform here. One of its great strengths is the
> ability to bring together documentation from various sources.
> I'm not at all sure if the Cocoon project will want to go this way, but
> I propose we create a solution, demonstrate it and then ask for comments
> and suggestions here.
> Ross

I hate sleeping ! It keeps me out of the loop for too long ! :-P Anyway...
There's just something I would like to precise relative to Ross's
concerns. I've been following The Apache Foundation and its projects
for quite a while now, from an observer point of view, and I've come
to notice a very bad habit : what I would call (I don't know if it's
correct English) self-closure. It seems that everything has to be
Apache in more and more Apache projects. Continuum developed instead
of improving Cruisecontrol integration for Maven. Now this new Harmony
thing. And now you seem to want to redirect all the output of
PlanetCocoon to Forrest just to be sure it remains the only
documentation channel.
But the truth is that I don't agree with this self-sufficience
approach because, even if I'm aware of the fact that it prevents you
guys from being dependant on other external groups and projects, it's
so limited.
Forrest is limited : it's cool, it's normalized, it's coherent but
it's only one form of documentation. And there are things that Forrest
doesn't provide and that we intend to provide on Planet Cocoon. And I
really don't see the problem with that. On the contrary it's one of
the beauties of Open Source development. Look at PHP : it has its own
very powerful documentation platform but there are many others, with
different features, different languages, different goals.

What I mean is that (and it's my personal opinion) the way I see it,
Forrest will be one possible output for our documentation and we will
do whatever it takes to make it compatible. And we'll do whatever it
takes to do things the right way, to respect licenses and
acknowledgements of any sort. But if Forrest remains the only output,
if we have to limit ourselves technically to fit in the frame of
Forrest and the "everything Apache" rule of thumb, it's not
interesting for me. What I like in computer science in general and in
OSS developement in particular, it's integration, "raising on your
peer's shoulders".

Of course this opinion is a caricature. I'm aware of some initiatives
willing to integrate external technologies like the recent OSGi
discussion for example. But I think you get MY point (and I insist on
"MY" because I don't want to involve Mark in that opinion) : the
reason why we chose to use Drupal instead of some Cocoon-based CMS,
the reason why I would personally prefer we create our own document
storage format to fit our needs accurately rather than some
Forrest-oriented solution (remaining Forrest-convertible of course),
the reason why I think Planet Cocoon is a wonderful initiative, it's
because it's another complement, another door opened on Cocoon's

This is not a troll. This is not a provocation of any sort. I just
wanted to precise the way I see things and I'd be happy to discuss
that in a constructive debate.

Sebastien ARBOGAST

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