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From "Nathaniel Alfred" <>
Subject RE: [RT] Micro kernel based Cocoon
Date Tue, 24 May 2005 14:54:51 GMT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Fagerstrom []
> Sent: Dienstag, 24. Mai 2005 13:40
> To:
> Subject: Re: [RT] Micro kernel based Cocoon
> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> > Daniel Fagerstrom wrote:
> >
> >> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip/>
> >>
> >>> We should also consider if blocks should be _similar_ to Eclipse 
> >>> plugins, of if they should _be_ such plugins, which would 
> remove us 
> >>> a log of work, both for code, docs and support.
> >>
> >> I have read some Eclipse docu, but it is not obvious to me what 
> >> Eclipse plugins will help us more specifically with. Care to flesh 
> >> out some more details?
> >
> > The extension point system can be of great value: a plugin 
> declares an 
> > extension point (e.g. the core can declare a "source-factory" 
> > extension point), and plugins can provide contributions to this 
> > extension point (e.g. the JCR block will contribute a jcr: source 
> > factory). The source resolver can then know all protocols that are 
> > provided by plugins somewhere in the system.
> For this specific usecase, the URL service of OSGi could also be of 
> interest. But in general extension points could be useful.
> > AFAIU the plugin management stuff (download, update, etc) 
> is specific, 
> > even if built on top of OSGi. Version management also.
> Ok. One one hand it is good to leverage on whats in Eclipse. 
> OTH it seem 
> to introduce quite a lot of bulk, even the platform download from 
> Eclipse is some tens of MBs. Maybe one can use a much smaller part of 
> Eclipse. To me it seem atractive to being able to chose 
> between several 
> implementations of OSGi and that e.g. the framework 
> implementation from 
> Knopplerfish starts at 200KB.
> /Daniel

I'm afraid history is repeating itself.  In my perception the Cocoon core dependency on Avalon/Excalibur
was a major PITA even before the community breakdown.  A separate community (although large
overlap with Cocoon), separate release cycles, separate repository, separate agenda, ...

Everytime I wanted to debug something I hit a wall with no way to get at the source code.
 Always a datestamped JAR with some private fixes, completely unreproducable.

With Eclipse, Knopplerfish, Spring or other it might be the same and even worse because of
the missing insider links.

Instead of a micro kernel which is going to have again a large footprint to do anything useful
I'd rather prefer a small kernel to do just what Cocoon needs.  After all Cocoon is just a
super-servlet which needs a bit of container services for managing component reuse and state
information.  We should not make it again the playground for container academics.

Cheers, Alfred.
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