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From Leszek Gawron <>
Subject Re: [RT] Micro kernel based Cocoon
Date Sun, 22 May 2005 10:57:47 GMT
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>>- breaking up the monolitic Cocoon
>>- getting over the Java jar hell
>>- making development of Cocoon extensions outside of the
>>   Cocoon project much easier (why there are hardly any Cocoon based
>>   projects out, except Daisy, Lenya, Forrest and two or three others)
>>- ever tried to run your own project and let's say Forrest
>>   and maybe Lenya in one webapp application? Maybe possible but
>>   I wouldn't want to manage this configuration (and good luck
>>   with the next upgrade of one of them)
> Ok, ok, I totally agree that we have to work on these points, no
> question. For most of the points above we could provide an improved
> build system, e.g. use Maven, and use the new functionalities we already
> have in 2.2 and that's it. But that's not my point.
> Cocoon has a very high learning curve, so we have to flatten this
> learning curve. Users never really understood Avalon; but interestingly
> everyone understands Spring - which is the same concepts of Avalon but
> done differently (I know, I simplify here a little bit, please, all
> Spring lovers forgive me for now!).
I have another opinion on this. Users never understood Avalong because 
of it's crappy/not existing documentation. .xconf file format is quite 
complex and documented nowhere. You start to get the picture after you 
know there is a .roles file somewhere. Most users do not even know one 

Moreover now that Avalon is gone you have no documentation available, 
google search points to javadoc long time removed. You'll have luck if 
you are determined enough and find excalibur sources.

On the contrary Spring has everything in one place. The documentation is 
  broad and straightforward.

I tried to find any starters for eclipse's OSGi implementation. Not a 
single useful page. If we are to make users read OSGi specification, 
then seek for help in external projects that are hardly documented we 
get the same problem in a fancy new outfit.

Leszek Gawron                            
IT Manager                                         MobileBox sp. z o.o.
+48 (61) 855 06 67                    
mobile: +48 (501) 720 812                       fax: +48 (61) 853 29 65

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