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From Torsten Curdt <tcu...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [RT] How scripting made me hate java
Date Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:48:56 GMT
> And now you ask me to write java code and take 60 seconds to see if
> anything I changed made a difference?
>
> You gotta be kidding.

It's a pain ...I know.

> Another private conversation tried to convince Torsten of moving the
> compiling classloader into the pipeline system so that we could use
> pipeline components directly from java source code, effectively
> 'scripting' the pipelines... but I think Torsten is having too much fun
> with the continuation side of things to be concerned about this.

Hehe ...well be sure I would like to work
on this but currently I am trying to get
javaflow and jci to a stage were they are
no longer a one man show and being used
in other projects as well. Which is also
incredible important - I think!

> Another option was Ugo's implementation of the sitemap in Groovy (even
> if I think Groovy committed suicide by entering the JCP), but there was
> strong pushback on the idea of a unification of sitemap and flowscript
> (even if flowscript is being abused as a sitemap router more and more
> every day!) so I let that go.

...well we have reloading of the sitemap
and we have reloading of flow. This would
not change the things that really bug you.

> I'm in *desperate* need to reduce that try/fail cycle in cocoon or I
> simply won't be able to touch its code anymore. Which is very
> frustrating, given the amount of things I could get done if I only could
> go back to it.

This is not a "blame avalon" serenade but
I think since the container that we are using
was developed without having component reloading
in mind it's going to be extremely painful
to get all this working "just like that".

> Moving the blocks out of the way and implementing a compile-time block
> deploying tool would do wonders in reducing the size of the codebase and
> making people think that cocoon is a more tractable problem...

Totally agree. In fact it should become
one of hour top goals if we don't want
to drown in all this code.

...at least that's my feeling when I look
at all the blocks and how fast we are
approaching the "real blocks".

> it might
> well increase the birth of an ecosystem of block creation (I really hope
> so!) but it won't solve the issue that cocoon *itself* is exhibiting:
> how scripting spoiled us.

Sure

> What we need is to help people write java code again and the only way to
> achieve this is by reducing the try/fail cycle.

Someone pay my bills and I would
love to work full time on that ;)

> This is a wake up call people: our foundations are becoming old and are
> in danger of losing the knowledge that allows us to maintain it. (what
> happens if Sylvain and Carsten leave! think about it!)

Yepp ...yepp ...yepp

Guys, maybe we should get together
more often. I found this always
very helpful...

cheers
--
Torsten

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