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From Torsten Curdt <>
Subject Re: [RT] How scripting made me hate java
Date Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:48:56 GMT
> And now you ask me to write java code and take 60 seconds to see if
> anything I changed made a difference?
> You gotta be kidding.

It's a pain ...I know.

> Another private conversation tried to convince Torsten of moving the
> compiling classloader into the pipeline system so that we could use
> pipeline components directly from java source code, effectively
> 'scripting' the pipelines... but I think Torsten is having too much fun
> with the continuation side of things to be concerned about this.

Hehe ...well be sure I would like to work
on this but currently I am trying to get
javaflow and jci to a stage were they are
no longer a one man show and being used
in other projects as well. Which is also
incredible important - I think!

> Another option was Ugo's implementation of the sitemap in Groovy (even
> if I think Groovy committed suicide by entering the JCP), but there was
> strong pushback on the idea of a unification of sitemap and flowscript
> (even if flowscript is being abused as a sitemap router more and more
> every day!) so I let that go.

...well we have reloading of the sitemap
and we have reloading of flow. This would
not change the things that really bug you.

> I'm in *desperate* need to reduce that try/fail cycle in cocoon or I
> simply won't be able to touch its code anymore. Which is very
> frustrating, given the amount of things I could get done if I only could
> go back to it.

This is not a "blame avalon" serenade but
I think since the container that we are using
was developed without having component reloading
in mind it's going to be extremely painful
to get all this working "just like that".

> Moving the blocks out of the way and implementing a compile-time block
> deploying tool would do wonders in reducing the size of the codebase and
> making people think that cocoon is a more tractable problem...

Totally agree. In fact it should become
one of hour top goals if we don't want
to drown in all this code. least that's my feeling when I look
at all the blocks and how fast we are
approaching the "real blocks".

> it might
> well increase the birth of an ecosystem of block creation (I really hope
> so!) but it won't solve the issue that cocoon *itself* is exhibiting:
> how scripting spoiled us.


> What we need is to help people write java code again and the only way to
> achieve this is by reducing the try/fail cycle.

Someone pay my bills and I would
love to work full time on that ;)

> This is a wake up call people: our foundations are becoming old and are
> in danger of losing the knowledge that allows us to maintain it. (what
> happens if Sylvain and Carsten leave! think about it!)

Yepp ...yepp ...yepp

Guys, maybe we should get together
more often. I found this always
very helpful...


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