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From Mark Lowe <>
Subject Re: Dependencies
Date Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:46:19 GMT
Using cocoon isn't a particular problem for me personally, I'm used to
working with this stuff and have worked on all tiers of web
applications so I have a pretty good insight into where the problems
lie. The problem is how to you get a web tier type person to digest
this stuff, we know xslt is already a problem in this sense, but
ideally if separation of concerns was a reality web tier folk wouldn't
need to compile from source. We have folk who are usually working on
backend stuff that might recieve a ticket to fix something cocoon
releated, there's no quick way in which they can make an intervention
without getting bogged down in too much detail about the web tier.

I've got the 2.2 checked out, I'd be happy using it just the project
we're working on is between 2-3 parties all of which need to build
against the same version. This moving target, while understandable is
the crux of the problem. In the past I've managed to get projects to
pretty much checkout, perhaps change a db user and pw and build (e.g.
struts-spring-hibernate, maven downloads dependencies, xdoclet tags
are processed and the mapping files generated, schema is generated
from the mapping files, sample data for unit testing and for
presention folk inserted, the thing builds and everyone is away. I
don't know what I would have done if I had to build struts, spring
and/or hibernate during the build, which is the bridge that needs to
be crossed with cocoon.

I am working though the source and trying to get myself to a position
where I can be more useful. But for the time being, you're right in
that I will only be a new user for a short time, in a months time I
want have the same insights I do now. If that sounds sarcastic then I
can only appologise.


On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:25:44 +0100, Reinhard Poetz <> wrote:
> Mark Lowe wrote:
> > All you hear on this list is how fast developing cocoon is compared to
> > other ways of solving the same problems. IMHO this isn't the case, my
> > appologies if my contribution thus far has boiled down to pointing out
> > why this plainly isn't the case. Not the greatest contribution I know
> > but I'd say one the same.
> >
> > I'll tone down the saracasm, I just thought it important that someone
> > points this stuff out no matter how much folk might not want to hear
> > it.
> I think you are right. Getting started with Cocoon isn't really easy. I'm
> working hard to lower the entry barrier for new Cocoon users in 2.2 (I know this
> won't help _you_ very much ...) by
>  - a new documentation (system)
>  - a simplified build mechanism
> Any feedback/contribution on both topics is very welcome, especially from a new
> user of Cocoon like you are.
> --
> Reinhard Pötz           Independant Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
> {Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
>                                        web(log):
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

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