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From Glen Ezkovich <>
Subject Re: [RT] CTemplate
Date Mon, 28 Feb 2005 01:00:13 GMT

I have no doubt that if the ability to create objects is included it 
would be best for you if you could turn it off in the sitemap or 
cocoon.xconf. I don't think this feature is necessary. I also think 
that if the community decides it is, it should just be available. The 
idea of making things difficult to discourage their use is wrong. If 
you don't think a feature should be used then don't include the 
feature. Show me the use case where creating Java objects in a template 
is necessary, then we can evaluate whether there are other better 
alternatives and ultimately decide whether this feature is necessary.

On Feb 27, 2005, at 1:03 PM, Ralph Goers wrote:

>> I think we share the same sentiment. On the other hand, you can not 
>> be sure that someone has not turned this feature on unless you check 
>> and if the feature is there you can check to see if it has been used. 
>> Either way you have to check. Admittedly, checking wether it is 
>> turned on is easier then checking if it has been used. If you are in 
>> charge and you say "do not write Java programs in the template", then 
>> the compliance is not voluntary.
> On the contrary, we have one group that creates the XSLTs and 
> templates. They don't have access to the sitemaps or cocoon.xconf. So 
> using a configuration switch is sufficient.

  You seem to be assuming this is a global configuration issue. If I 
were to make this configurable I would do it on template by template 
basis, since it seems that in the general case this would not be 
necessary but in a special case it might be expedient. Once you turn it 
on globally, say hello to Barbara Eden, the genie is out of the bottle. 
Now if you could turn it on by pipeline in the sitemap, you'd be 
golden. From a user perspective I think it makes more sense to turn it 
on in the template as a processing instruction.

This particular battle is not that important. The feature currently 
exists. Its much harder to take it away. It is used. So be it. If you 
want to make it configurable and default to off, its better then 
nothing. It just adds one more complexity to Cocoon.

Simplification is such hard work. ;-)

> Build systems can't check templates that are brought in from a content 
> management system at run-time.

Can't you run scripts in you CMS when content is added and/or before it 
is published?

Glen Ezkovich
HardBop Consulting
glen at

A Proverb for Paranoids:
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to 
worry about answers."
- Thomas Pynchon Gravity's Rainbow

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