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From Reinhard Poetz <>
Subject Re: [proposal] Cocoon documentation system
Date Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:15:13 GMT
Steven Noels wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2005, at 11:49, Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>> Steven Noels wrote:
>>> I'm not so optimistic about a) the chance that automated SVN commit 
>>> access using role accounts will be granted, and b) whether the 
>>> technicalities of a secure webapp which is tied to the ASF web of 
>>> trust (keys, certificates) will get solved properly.
>>> That's why I'm steering clear of the ASF infrastructure issue. We 
>>> can't possible require the ASF to host a specialized documentation 
>>> system, since Cocoon will want to use Cocoon, some Geronimites are 
>>> eager of Confluence, old-school folks prefer Anakia, etc etc. I know 
>>> there's efforts underway to provide people with machine VMs that they 
>>> can play with at leisure, but the infra folks remain severely 
>>> understaffed (look at how SVN itself is doing lately), and I'm not 
>>> sure whether there will ever be willingness to grant access from such 
>>> an untrusted VM to the trusted SVN repo server.
>> chicken egg situation ... let's see what's going to be happen ...
> Sure. I don't want to hold you back - I'm just thinking out loudly.
>>> I think Cocoon needs better documentation, not a new area. ;-)
>> meant era ;-)
> Ah - sorry.
>>> What I fail to understand is your apparent eagerness to get going, 
>>> yet you want to focus first on rebuilding things which are already 
>>> readily accessible.

One word to my eagerness ;-)
As said in some other mails: The next 6-8 weeks I have time to work on the 
documentation infrastructure. After this time, I don't know how things will 
develop ...

>> Therefore a concept that works without online CMS. Currently writing 
>> xdocs is a pain and the reason why (nearly) nobody is writting docs. 
>> Additionally our documentation has to be restructered and partly 
>> rewritten because it doesn't reflect how Cocoon 2.1/2.2 can/should be 
>> used.
> WDYM with no online CMS? 

I meant "online editing" (vs. offline editing like we currently do it)

> The fact that the documentation can be exported 
> statically and hosted on the ASF servers, preferably automated or at 
> least synchronized with releases? Support for static technical 
> documentation and software manuals is exactly what we need to do for the 
> 1.3 release (1.2 is planned somewhere in the first two weeks of februari).
>>> IMHO, the documentation issue is only editorial, not technical. The 
>>> only logistical issue we should address is merging the xdocs with the 
>>> Wiki.
>> See above, IMHO this is different.
> I suspect we want to say the same thing: the hard part will be getting 
> people to work on the documentation (i.e. editorial) and provide them 
> with a super-efficient environment to do so. 

and here we fail badly ATM, and as you suspect this is my main movivation

 > I believe Daisy's editing
> environment is rather efficient, and that it should be quite feasible to 
> build a custom publishing application (which can be crawled using wget 
> for static renditions) on top of it.

Let's see ...


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