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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: [proposal] Cocoon documentation system
Date Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:35:02 GMT
On 18 Jan 2005, at 09:59, Reinhard Poetz wrote:

> Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
>> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>> Forrest - pardon my rudeness - sucks as a static site generation 
>>> system. I can't wait to have it shine as a dynamic system :-)
>> What prevents the use of Apache Lenya ?
> Nothing or as less as the use of

>  - write my own


I think we're touching the core of the issue here. Rather than looking 
at lists of features, there's a list of requirements. Without any hard 
feelings at all, I've lost the ambition or energy to try and motivate 
people to shape their requirements to better reflect Daisy's features - 
I prefer Daisy users to make a positive choice instead (look at all the 
features I got!) rather than a negative one (only 85% of my 
requirements are addressed so I'm doomed). Look at how Jira (and in the 
future perhaps Confluence) quickly won lots of ASF users - even though 
Jira is a pig to keep running (Daisy isn't).

I understand that part of the requirements is to comply with the 
existing ASF infrastructure. I've had my opportunity to run a 
non-ASF-infra-resource for two years, and I'm happy that I don't have 
to check server logs of the Wiki anymore. I do hate the current 
documentation system and MoinMoin wiki with a passion though, as its 
split personality is obviously not helping people to produce better 
documentation. So we definitely need one system, which supports both 
Wiki-style grassroots authoring, and a proper software documentation 
CMS. And yes, ASF-compliancy means we should be careful about security 
if we want to run alongside the code repositories.

The only thing I am worried about is that your system will add a third 
option, and that you'll feel the pain in supporting it as I've felt 
with the JSPWiki at times. I think it will be very hard to combine both 
editorial and technical/logistical work.

Yeah, I'm trying to sell you Daisy, while I don't commit myself to the 
documentation overhaul effort. That's because we want to support 
Daisy's users (which could very well be the documentation overhaulers), 
rather than loose ourselves again in both doing the work, and 
supporting the logistics around it. I'm a passive salesman here: I'd be 
happy and honoured if Cocoon picks Daisy for its features, but Daisy 
doesn't need such a project to succeed.

Steven Noels                  
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML            An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at  
stevenn at                stevenn at

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