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From Sylvain Wallez <>
Subject Re: JXTemplateGenerator
Date Sun, 12 Dec 2004 13:06:52 GMT
Christopher Oliver wrote:


>> Let's face it: your code is dense as a neutron star and dense of 
>> comments and tests as the the outter space around one. 
> For what it's worth I do like _your_ writing style above.

Me too, both because of the humorous tone and the message is conveys. 
Now you should remind that for most people here, english is a foreign 
language, and that not everybody is able to express jokes in a language 
they're not intimately familiar with. I for one am always afraid that 
funny expressions I know in french could be wrongly perceived when 
translated to english and read by non-english speakers. Cultural and 
language differences require the message to be more universal and 
therefore less original.

>> Your respect/care for the complexity of the social dynamics that 
>> originate around it is close to zero. 
> Now, let me tell _you_ a story:
> I play basketball 3-4 nights a week at the park by my house - 
> "streetball", not organized basketball.  Now basketball is a fast 
> paced game that requires split-second  decision making. As a result 
> even the best players make mistakes in virtually every game. When an 
> experienced player commits a turnover, misses an easy shot, misses a 
> defensive assigment or whatever, there's no feeling of embarassment 
> because it's known to be part of the game. However, inexperienced 
> players tend to take their own mistakes as a personal reflection on 
> their ability and tend to get embarassed or angry when one of their 
> teamates points it out.
> Now, since this is streetball and anyone can play, many different 
> people of different skill levels show up.  However, in this case there 
> is a harsh reality that if you don't know how to play the game well 
> enough, you're likely to get embarassed by getting scored on, having 
> the ball stolen from you, or your shots rejected. The only way not to 
> get embarassed is to improve your game, to learn from your own 
> mistakes - persevering through those embarassing moments - and to 
> learn from other players. Anyone who has achieved any skill at 
> basketball has gone through this process.

If you consider this story to be comparable to OSS development, then you 
are very far from the values of this community, and this explains a lot 
of things regarding how you behave and answer people. Developping Cocoon 
is not a competition. Developers don't try to bash each other, but work 
together to build something in common. Yes, there are some less 
experienced people. But if they are here and if they have been voted in 
as committers, it's because they have something to bring, and because 
they have the ability and the desire to learn. And more experienced 
people are happy to help them on this way.

>> The avalon project was taken over by peop le like you, that 
>> considered "consensus by friction" a better way to achieve progress 
>> and reduce the noisy babbage of social interaction with "inferior" 
>> talents. Result: social entropy expansion that lead to thermal death. 
> I don't agree that I am anything like them and I don't think you would 
> say that if your really knew me.

You're right: you went away rather than manipulating people like what 
happened in Avalon. Now people having met Stephen Mc Connell IRL said he 
is a pleasant person, and I heard the same about several people that are 
ususally rude in mailing-lists.

People can have very different behaviours in the virtualized world that 
is a mailing-list and the real world, when physical bodies are in front 
of each other. Unfortunately, we only know you through this list.

>> Technical problems are way more trivial to solve than social ones. 
> Personally, I find both types of problems hard to solve.

Which explains the current situation: you're not happy to see people 
criticizing your work and wanting to refactor it so that it is more 
understandable and more easily adaptable to the evolution of its 
surrounding environment. Time goes on, and things have to evolve and 
adapt or die. That's what is happening currently with JXTG.


Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies 
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }

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