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From Sylvain Wallez <>
Subject Re: [Design] JXTG 2.0 (Just say yes!)
Date Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:23:20 GMT
Niclas Hedhman wrote:

>On Monday 06 December 2004 23:00, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>>In that case, a single EL is just painful.
>>Furthermore, specifying the language in the component declaration
>>doesn't help readability nor reuse of templates between projects.
>Is it only me? I like Java a lot, and how come I can't construct the page 
>parts in Java as well? Is it that people really love to learn 15 different 
>programming languages when one can do more than enough?
>Tapestry, IMHO, have got a lot of things right. Let the programmers use Java 
>and let the designers use Dreamweaver (or whatever their personal choice is).
>Having the programmers crank out some <tr> statements isn't that much of a 
>deal, but blurring the pitcure of who is in charge of the template is. The 
>designer knows shit-all about any programming construct and the programmer 
>knows shit-all about design (pardon my french).

Well, I for one hate writing tons of Java to build a screen, despite 
being a Java developer since JDK 1.1.x. A screen is a declarative thing 
to me, and the natural language to build it is some kind of XML. 
Furthermore, I want to organize it as I want, without having to ask a 
webdesigner to change the location of a button. That's why I love 
templates that produce structural layout markup (e.g. html with classes) 
that is styled down the pipeline by various transformations and CSS.

>Maybe this community is a lot about people who think that they are in the 
>middle and can do both... no offense :o) , most real-world projects are not 
>organized in that manner.

Be careful: the concept of "real-world project" is a highly varying 
concept here :-)

Tapestry provides only one way to do things, meaning its users have to 
accept this way or switch to another framework. Cocoon is at the other 
end by providing so many ways of doing things that there cannot be a 
single imposed way. Like it or not, that part of what makes Cocoon so 
special and used in so many different contexts. And the kilometer-long 
thread on JXTG 2.0 clearly shows this :-)


Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies 
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }

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