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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Hibernate question
Date Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:37:09 GMT
Leszek Gawron wrote:

> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> 
>> Leszek Gawron wrote:
>>
>>> Let's imagine we base cocoon on spring. There was a discussion about 
>>> including hibernate in cocoon and it failed (licensing). Spring being 
>>> ASL 2.0 ships with hibernate library, even if not - it contains code 
>>> that was compiled against hibernate interfaces. Wouldn't this be an 
>>> issue?
>>
>>
>>
>> Ouch. yes. Can you outline the dependencies more?
>>
> Spring has a support for hibernate OOTB. There are 2 packages dependant 
> on hibernate:
> 
> org.springframework.orm.hibernate
> org.springframework.orm.hibernate.support
> 
> The problem is that the distribution consists of :
> - either single spring.jar that contains all
> - or spring-XXX.jar where XXX is core, orm, aop and so on. you could 
> drop whole spring-orm.jar but then you loose all support for any OR 
> framework.
> 
> I am suprised of one fact: how can Spring be distributed with ASL 2.0 
> license if it is compiled against LGPL code (and redistributes this code 
> in compiled form also)?

The ASF (well, some directors) believe that the LGPL is still viral for 
java code. This has never been tested in court, nor the FSF has publicly 
stated a clear opinion on the subject, so the ASF prefers to stay away 
from it.

Personally, I don't think there any problem in LGPL dependencies.

> Are they in trouble or are we wrong?

Nobody is in trouble (unless the hibernate people go after them, which 
would be a pretty stupid thing to do anyway)

> This is the readme file from spring lib directory:
> 
> The following libraries are included in the Spring Framework 
> distribution because they are
> required either for building the framework or for running the sample 
> apps. Note that each
> of these libraries is subject to the respective license; check the 
> respective project
> distribution/website before using any of them in your own applications.
> 
> * ant/ant.jar
> - Ant 1.6.1 (http://ant.apache.org)
> - used to build the framework and the sample apps
> 
> * aopalliance/aopalliance.jar
> - AOP Alliance 1.0 (http://aopalliance.sourceforge.net)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using AOP functionality
> 
> * axis/axis.jar, axis/saaj.jar, axis/wsdl.jar
> - Apache Axis 1.1 (http://ws.apache.org/axis)
> - required for running JPetStore
> 
> * caucho/burlap-2.1.12.jar
> - Burlap 2.1.12 (http://www.caucho.com/burlap)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when Spring's Burlap remoting support
> 
> * caucho/hessian-2.1.12.jar
> - Hessian 2.1.12 (http://www.caucho.com/hessian)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when Spring's Hessian remoting support
> 
> * cglib/cglib-2.0.1.jar, cglib/asm.jar
> - CGLIB 2.0.1 with ObjectWeb ASM 1.4 (http://cglib.sourceforge.net)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when proxying full target classes via Spring AOP
> 
> * cos/cos.jar
> - Jason Hunter's COS 05Nov02 (http://www.servlets.com/cos)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's CosMultipartResolver or 
> CosMailSender
> 
> * dom4j/dom4j.jar
> - DOM4J 1.4 XML parser (http://dom4j.sourceforge.net)
> - required for running Petclinic (by Hibernate)
> 
> * easymock/easymock.jar, easymock/easymockclassextension.jar
> - EasyMock 1.1 (http://www.easymock.org)
> - required for building the test suite
> 
> * freemarker/freemarker.jar
> - FreeMarker 2.3 RC4 (http://www.freemarker.org)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's FreeMarker support
> 
> * hibernate/ehcache.jar
> - EHCache 0.6 (http://ehcache.sourceforge.net)
> - required for running Petclinic (by Hibernate)
> 
> * hibernate/hibernate2.jar, hibernate/odmg.jar
> - Hibernate 2.1.3 (http://www.hibernate.org)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's Hibernate support
> 
> * hsqldb/hsqldb.jar
> - HSQLDB 1.7.1 (http://hsqldb.sourceforge.net)
> - required for running JPetStore and Petclinic
> 
> * ibatis/ibatis-common.jar, ibatis/ibatis-sqlmap.jar, 
> ibatis/ibatis-sqlmap-2.jar
> - iBATIS SQL Maps 1.3.1 and 2.0 RC5 (http://www.ibatis.com)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's iBATIS SQL Maps support
> 
> * itext/itext-1.02b.jar
> - iText PDF 1.02 (http://www.lowagie.com/itext)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's AbstractPdfView
> 
> * j2ee/activation.jar
> - JavaBeans Activation Framework 1.0.1 
> (http://java.sun.com/products/javabeans/glasgow/jaf.html)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JavaMailSender
> 
> * j2ee/connector-api.jar
> - J2EE Connector Architecture 1.5 (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/connector)
> - required at runtime when using Hibernate's JCA Connector
> 
> * j2ee/ejb.jar
> - Enterprise JavaBeans API 2.0 (http://java.sun.com/products/ejb)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's EJB support
> 
> * j2ee/jaxrpc.jar
> - JAX-RPC API 1.0 (http://java.sun.com/xml/jaxrpc)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JAX-RPC support
> 
> * j2ee/jdbc2_0-stdext.jar
> - JDBC 2.0 Standard Extensions (http://java.sun.com/products/jdbc)
> - required for building the framework on J2SE 1.3
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JDBC support on J2SE 1.3
> 
> * j2ee/jms.jar
> - Java Message Service API 1.0.2b (java.sun.com/products/jms)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's AbstractJmsMessageDrivenBean
> 
> * j2ee/jstl.jar
> - JSP Standard Tag Library API 1.0 (http://java.sun.com/products/jstl)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JstlView
> 
> * j2ee/jta.jar
> - Java Transaction API 1.0.1b (http://java.sun.com/products/jta)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JtaTransactionManager
> 
> * j2ee/mail.jar
> - JavaMail 1.2 (http://java.sun.com/products/javamail)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JavaMailSender
> 
> * j2ee/servlet.jar
> - Servlet API 2.3, including JSP 1.2 (http://java.sun.com/products/servlet)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's web support
> 
> * j2ee/xml-apis.jar
> - JAXP, DOM and SAX APIs (taken from Xerces 2.6 distribution; 
> http://xml.apache.org/xerces2-j)
> - required for building the framework on J2SE 1.3
> - required at runtime when using Spring's XmlBeanFactory on J2SE 1.3
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-attributes-*-SNAPSHOT.jar
> - Commons Attributes May 9th snapshot 
> (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/attributes)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's Commons Attributes support
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-beanutils.jar
> - Commons BeanUtils 1.6 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/beanutils)
> - required for running JPetStore's Struts web tier
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-collections.jar
> - Commons Collections 2.1 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections)
> - required for running JPetStore's Struts web tier
> - required for running Petclinic (by Hibernate)
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-dbcp.jar
> - Commons DBCP 1.1 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/dbcp)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's CommonsDbcpNativeJdbcExtractor
> - required for running JPetStore and Image Database
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-digester.jar
> - Commons Digester 1.5 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/digester)
> - required for running JPetStore's Struts web tier
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-discovery.jar
> - Commons Discovery 0.2 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/discovery)
> - required for running JPetStore (by Axis)
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-fileupload.jar
> - Commons FileUpload 1.0 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/fileupload)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's CommonsMultipartResolver
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-lang.jar
> - Commons Lang 1.0.1 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/lang)
> - required for running JPetStore's Struts web tier
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-logging.jar
> - Commons Logging 1.0.3 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/logging)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime, as Spring uses it for all logging
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-pool.jar
> - Commons Pool 1.1 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/pool)
> - required for running JPetStore and Image Database
> 
> * jakarta-commons/commons-validator.jar
> - Commons Validator 1.0.2 (http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/validator)
> - required for running JPetStore's Struts web tier
> 
> * jakarta-taglibs/standard.jar
> - Jakarta's JSTL implementation 1.0.5 (http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs)
> - required for running JPetStore, Petclinic, Countries, and Tiles Example
> 
> * jboss/jboss-common-jdbc-wrapper.jar
> - JBoss connection pool classes (http://www.jboss.org)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JbossNativeJdbcExtractor
> 
> * jdo/jdo.jar
> - JDO API 1.0.1 (http://access1.sun.com/jdo)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JDO support
> 
> * jdom/jdom.jar
> - JDOM 1.0 beta 9 (http://www.jdom.org)
> - required at runtime by iBATIS SQL Maps 1.3.1
> 
> * jotm/jotm.jar
> - JOTM 1.4.3 (http://jotm.objectweb.org)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's JotmFactoryBean
> 
> * jotm/xapool.jar
> - XAPool 1.3.1 (taken from the JOTM distribution)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's XAPoolNativeJdbcExtractor
> 
> * junit/junit.jar
> - JUnit 3.8.1 (http://www.junit.org)
> - required for building the test suite
> 
> * log4j/log4j-1.2.8.jar
> - Log4J 1.2.8 (http://logging.apache.org/log4j)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's Log4jConfigurer
> 
> * poi/poi-2.5.jar
> - Apache POI 2.5 (http://jakarta.apache.org/poi)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's AbstractExcelView
> 
> * quartz/quartz.jar
> - Quartz 1.3.2 (http://www.quartzscheduler.org)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's Quartz scheduling support
> 
> * rexexp/jakarta-oro-2.0.7.jar
> - Jakarta ORO 2.0.7 regular expression parser 
> (http://jakarta.apache.org/oro)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's RegexpMethodPointcut
> 
> * struts/struts-1.1.jar
> - Apache Struts 1.1 (http://jakarta.apache.org/struts)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using the Struts support or TilesView
> - required for running JPetStore's Struts web tier
> 
> * velocity/velocity-1.4.jar
> - Velocity 1.4 (http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using Spring's VelocityView
> 
> * velocity/velocity-tools-generic-1.1.jar
> - Velocity Tools 1.1 (http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/tools)
> - required for building the framework
> - required at runtime when using VelocityView's support for Velocity Tools
> 
> * xdoclet/xjavadoc-1.0.jar
> - XDoclet 1.0 (http://xdoclet.sourceforge.net)
> - used by Commons Attributes to parse source-level metadata in the build 
> process
> - required for building the framework and the attributes version of 
> JPetStore

there are two issues here:

  1) the LGPL stuff
  2) the J2EE stuff

Both contain wording that makes some ASF directors uneasy. For example, 
the J2EE API state that *YOU* have to defend sun in case somebody files 
a patent complain because of the code you redistribute.

Jakarta was created to route around this issue for the servlet API, 
basically and no talking was able to modify Sun's position on that for 
the other APIs.

Look, if it was for me, I'd say "fuck it, let's use them and wait for 
them to cease and desist us, then we move it to slashdot".

but I seem to be in minority up there.

-- 
Stefano.


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