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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: [RT] A Groovy Kind of Sitemap
Date Thu, 29 Jul 2004 19:13:14 GMT
On 29 Jul 2004, at 20:40, Tony Collen wrote:

> Steven Noels wrote:
> &snip;
>> IMHO, simplicity has to do with predictability. XML grammars have 
>> this, scripting languages don't. While the use of a non-XML 
>> (scripting?) grammar for the site/flowmap might be clever, it might 
>> reduce the predictability. Too much magic for my poor brains. And 
>> even XML happens to be abused at times.
> Scripting languages (and programming languages in general) are easy to 
> create, all you need to do is define the grammar and tokens, and feed 
> it all to something like JFlex/BYacc to create a parser.  Perhaps it's 
> easier said than done.  Granted, I've done nothing with parser 
> generators, but in the end I think it's the same.

Agree, but I'm not convinced that we are just aiming for a simpler 
syntax. I feel we're moving away from declarative, and I'm convinced 
that this might reduce the predictability of Cocoon's behaviour and 
usage model.

I've been jotting down sitemaps in shorthand notation myself ...

match *.html
   generate {1}.xml
   transform 2html.xsl
   serialize html

... a bit like the humiliated XML used in httpd.conf, but IIUC, what is 
being suggested ATM is the introduction of the usual programming 
language constructs in Cocoon's request handling configuration 
syntax.... isn't its quest for Turing-completeness one of the reasons 
why XSLT has been shunned by real developers: being too much and too 
little of a programming language at the same time? With a programming 
language-like sitemap language, we might end with the same result.

I read mod_rewrite as an example, and I remember without looking up 
that the documentation of that module is the only one with a special 
foreword explaining/warning how wildly exotic it is.

Steven Noels                  
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML            An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at  
stevenn at                stevenn at

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