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From Marc Portier <>
Subject Re: The Butterfly Manifesto (was Re: [RT] Spring+JMX == Real Blocks?)
Date Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:35:11 GMT

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Ugo Cei wrote:

<snip />

>> Agreed, but even if we cannot prove that code is correct with unit 
>> tests alone, we can at least hope that - statistically - code that has 
>> 100% test coverage will have less bugs than code that has 10% test 
>> coverage. Unfortunately, my impression is that Cocoon is now at the 
>> lower end of the spectrum.
> Ugo,
> tests help but don't really buy us anything: have a community that is 
> strong and diverse enough to do the regression testing for us.

In all modesty, I think that community has better things to do: as I 
understand TDD regarding bugs then if you spot a certain problem once 
you make it into an automated test that runs automatically rather then 
hoping the same guy will run through his tests with the next upgrade

we're just missing the culture here, and have been spoiled by a 
community that doesn't mind (yet)

having a test harness and the culture to have problem-reports translated 
into tighting it up even more seems to me a catalizator to even grow the 
community based on it being is comforted by the fact that there is a 
sure progress and no need to run through the old stuff over and over...

so I honestly think it will buy us something...

> Let's not mix concerns: cocoon has few tests, agreed, but this has 
> nothing to do with the architecture.

dunno, web-projects in general have a tendency to lack good 
testharnesses, in fact everything that deals with end-user screens

however in our case I'ld like to think allong the lines of Ugo: the 
underlaying framework doesn't make setting up a testscenario really 
easy: you need the whole thing up and running to test anything, as far 
as I've seen spring at work it's implicity would less intrude into your 
components, so there is less of an environment to build up in your 
testcases to have them ran through some test-scenarios

those tests might be not true efull environment tests, but they'll 
surely be able to spot a fair share of low level RTE's you should get 
rid off

Marc Portier                  
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
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