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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: The Butterfly Manifesto (was Re: [RT] Spring+JMX == Real Blocks?)
Date Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:28:57 GMT
Ugo Cei wrote:

> Il giorno 12/lug/04, alle 18:23, Marc Portier ha scritto:
>> think so too, just needs more wild thinking and somebody doing :-)
> Since I'm getting more and more bored with my daytime job, I ended up 
> doing something:
> Comments are welcome, flames > /dev/null.

Avalon is dying (and I'm personally trying to killing it faster) and 
this status is hurting us (see the stall of the cocoon 2.2 evolution), 
so I agree with sentiments here that we must do something.

Changing container is a back-incompatible thing, even if, obviously, we 
can sandbox existing components into avalon sandbox (as proposed 
already) so our users should be worried since we care for them.

You are proposing Springs which is a rather simple, bean based, 
dependency-injection based framework.

Alternatives are:

  - Kernel (written by Pier and designed by Pier and myself)
  - Merlin
  - Geronimo Container (also compatible with Springs, from what I hear)
  - Fortress

My (obviously biased) view is that cocoon is both a production software 
and a research project, depending on other communities for our critical 
foundations turned out to be dangerous.

So, the question is: what do we buy in using somebody else's code 
instead of maintaining our own?

For sure it doesn't save us energy, we already have that container build.

For sure it doesn't increase our ability to innovate, since any changes 
have to go thru another mail list (which, in the Spring case, is not 
even ASF controlled).

For sure it doesn't help us with reusability of code, since we reuse 
libraries over their interfaces (JCP-standardized or not) and wrap them 
on our own little pipeline abstractions.

Result, I'm -1 on Spring because we can't control it and -0.5 on 
Merlin/Fortress/Geronimo because they are other communities with other 

I say we write our stuff and be done with it once and forever.


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