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From "Antonio Gallardo" <>
Subject Re: [RT] A Groovy Kind of Sitemap
Date Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:54:14 GMT
Ugo Cei dijo:
> Il giorno 28/lug/04, alle 08:12, Antonio Gallardo ha scritto:
>> I agree. The idea I buyed from XML was that we don't need to add new
>> parsers, easily transformations using XSLT, etc. and that is a point we
>> will lose.
> We have 74 classes to maintain in the o.a.c.components.treeprocessor
> package. It's true that you don't have to write the code to turn
> <map:*> into org.w3c.dom.Element but other than that ...

well, this was the point before in Cocoon. We thought users don't need to
know java to use it. But introducing a programming syntax will force users
to be programmers. Perhaps we never reached this point. I am not sure,
because it is not my case.

>> You know that I like Groovy. and I thought about that long time ago,
>> but I
>> was no brave enough to propose a Groovy syntax because the problems
>> parsing the Groovy code for later purposes. Note, I am not droping the
>> idea. I think we need to see closer to the pros and cons about a Groovy
>> sitemap syntax.

> Yes. That's why I presented a half-baked idea instead of a working
> implementation. To have a platform upon which to base further
> discussions.

I am glad you put the idea on the circle to be discussed. Currently, the
only pro I saw is the shorter coding. I like it. I am lazy too. ;-)

>> I still have the idea that we need an IDE for Cocoon and using non-XML
>> syntax will be harder to parse. Just think what if we need to build an
>> non-XML reader to interpret the sitemap. With an XML syntax it is a
>> very
>> easy task. Perhaps Sylvain call tell us more about this since they are
>> developing a tool for Cocoon.
> There are plugins coming out for Groovy on various IDEs (I know Eclipse
> has one) and syntax-highlighting modules for various editors. I am
> pretty sure someone will write a module to enable step-by-step
> debugging of Groovy scripts in your favourite IDE (maybe it's already
> there). Then you'll have step-by-step sitemap debugging FOR FREE in
> your IDE!

Nope. I don't thought in a java IDE. I thought in a Cocoon IDE of a helper
tool. Perhaps a GUI tool to build Cocoon apps. I was checking eclipse to
see how it can be useful here.

The idea is that we can build a GUI for sitemap. We can using the syntax
showed by Stefano in Ghent 2003 and in that way the XML version will be
easier to build and parse to show users. This is thevalue I see in the XML

> The point is not what we'll be able to do with such an arrangement. I'm
> pretty sure will be able to do more than what we do today and have
> others provide the necessary tools (remember I'm lazy). The point is
> whether using a full-fledged scripting language will give users far too
> many options and rope to hang themselves with, and how to avoid it.

Yep. Because I am lazy too. I builded the OJB support in Druid. That way I
saved a lot of boring code (beans and O/R map) to be wrote. And now I can
easily build a database+docs+OJB support using the GUI. In that way we can
build a GUI for the sitemap. I know this is OT here. But important because
if we switch, the parsing will be harder. Also I am afraid we will at the
end, just introduce a new syntax: Repleacing a XML "propietary" syntax"
with another "propietary" syntax is not a gain. I think, that HTML based
people can be feel better writting XML than a programming code. On the
ohter hand I see the point that sitemap is a executable unit so in this
way it will be better to express it as programming code..... This is why I
am not sure if the idea is good or not. Note, I am just writing what I
think. I will discuss it later with Carlos and I will post what we thought
about that.

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo.

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