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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: Fed up with build discussions: proposed deal
Date Wed, 26 May 2004 11:32:48 GMT
On 26 May 2004, at 11:12, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:

> Steven Noels wrote:
>> On 26 May 2004, at 10:15, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>> Some people here are not satisfied with our build system, and 
>>> advocate Maven. I definately agree with the first part, and am, for 
>>> technical but also for historical reasons, very much adverse to the 
>>> second one.
>> Apart from the human factor, about which I learned I couldn't care 
>> less anymore,
> Actually I still care about who manages the code we depend upon.
> I though we had learned a lesson with the forked Rhino, JISP, etc...

I understand that concern somehow, although I'm confident that Maven's 
community is just a tiny bit larger than Jisp, Rhino+cont, Depot, even 
Forrest for Pete's sake. Not as large as Ant of course, but Ant is 
roughly 100 years older than Maven, Depot or anything related. 
Comparing Maven with Rhino+cont or Jisp is hardly a valid argument. 
Jason is a loud guy, but we shouldn't judge Maven's merits based on 
that alone. Just as Cocoon's future doesn't have anything to do with 
the history between you & Jason, IMHO.

>> I'd love to hear about your specific technical quibbles with Maven.
> It uses more memory


> it's slower

+1, although maven console is sweeeet

> it's not yet released

RC3 seems close enough, and we have personal experience enough working 
on/with unreleased code, don't we? ;-) We can hardly call Maven 
"immature" these days.

> it does not (yet) work well with Forrest

Documentation shouldn't be a function of the build system (personal pet 

> it does not work with Gump

That's a burden indeed.

> it's not as stable anb backward compatible both in design and in code 
> as Ant is, it's not as much deployed and known as Ant


> it does not yet have good IDE integration... etc etc

We'll see how quickly the new Ant + Depot stuff you intend to use will 
be available inside IDEs.

Sorry to annoy you with my observations, but knowing the "person 
factor" on this subject, I have difficulties reading you as being 
impartial. Rather than giving you a blanket "+1" because I trust your 
technical judgement, I prefer to take a look and compare the maturity 
and adoption rate of Maven vs Depot.

Steven Noels                  
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML            An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at  
stevenn at                stevenn at

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