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From Pier Fumagalli <>
Subject Re: Serializers issues...
Date Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:46:11 GMT
On 21 Apr 2004, at 20:22, Joerg Heinicke wrote:
> On 21.04.2004 20:44, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>> We were looking at it monday morning with Jeremy, and we have ben 
>> unable to get to the point where you were (took us roughly 2 hours 
>> round and round the configs)...
>> Took me 30 minutes to patch up the Garbage serializers, and another 
>> hour to put it into a nice block, making sure it built and so on...
>> The problem was that when we fixed something somewhere (on some 
>> browser) it broke on another, and so on and so forth... With the 
>> Garbage serializer that doesn't happen, and we can go on with the 
>> development.
> The pragmatic programmer :) What I have indeed *not* done was testing 
> it in every browser. You seemed to focus on the validness, so I have 
> looked only for this.

Frankly, we're a publication company... At this point in time we could 
totally care less about "conformance", all we care about is that 99% of 
our customers can see the pages nicely as our designers planned them 
(and there's a HECK of CSS and JavaScript in them). For us differences 
in browsers are killers (and given that we ain't have enough time ATM, 
we can't adapt pipelines individually: one must work for all).

>>>> And it's scary that in our welcome XSLT we specify a META tag with a
>>>> charset and content type... Means that (probably) someone found that
>>>> bug beforehands and patched it with the XSLT...
>>> But isn't this only due to insufficient browser capabilities? IMO 
>>> it's ok if an
>>> XHTML does not add the meta tag. Only those stupid browsers that 
>>> ignore the xml
>>> declaration!
>> ????????? I'm talking about this tag found in the XSLT for the home 
>> page of our distro (welcome.xslt):
>> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/xhtml; charset=UTF-8"/>
> Yes, I know. And I refered to the comment written above it. What I 
> meant was if the encoding is given through the XML declaration there 
> is no further need for the meta tag. But the spec states that both xml 
> declaration and meta tag must be included while the xml declaration 
> takes precedence (

Kewl, but then, does the XALAN XHTML serializer put it in there?

>> If I change the serializer configuration (for example, change 
>> encoding to ISO-8859-1, I don't like UTF-8) that tag will be copied 
>> across to the output, and the browser will panic.
>> That <meta> tag MUST be written by the HTML serializer (or XHTML 
>> serializer), and must NOT be encoded in an XSLT in a pipeline, as 
>> pipelines use char(s) and not byte(s).
> Of course, the possible araised problems are obvious.
>>>> Why they're not fixed in there? Because I'm not smart enough to look
>>>> into XALAN itself, and (IMVHO) that thing of xsl:output was wrong in
>>>> the first place anyway (and that's what XALAN is relying on)...
>>> You mean the output options should not be under control of the 
>>> stylesheet?
>> Absolutely not... Cocoon internally is 100% unaware of any whatsoever 
>> encoding of characters... For instance it doesn't even know whether a 
>> character such as (C) [the copyright character] can be encoded in the 
>> output (imagine that I use an US-ASCII encoding). It _must_ not know 
>> it, that's the realm of the serializer.
> Yes, also obvious. I only did not know if that was the point of your 
> statement.

One of ! :-)


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