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From Niclas Hedhman <>
Subject [SUMMARY] IRC Meeting - 10:00 AM EST Sunday 25 2004
Date Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:36:12 GMT

Time: 1400 UTC
Date: 25 April 2004
Channel: #ApacheAvalon

  *  The Proposal of "Gang of Nine"  -  Move ECM+Fortress to CodeHaus.
  *  The Counter-proposal of Niclas Hedhman  -  Merlin TLP

Full log available at;

Active Attendees;
Noel Bergman
Niclas Hedhman
Stephen McConnell
Leo Simons
Peter Donald
J Aaron Farr
Michael Nash
Andreas Oberhack
Peter Royal
Mauro Talevi
Alex Karasulu
Leif Mortenson
Shash Chatterjee

Johan Sjöberg
Peter Courcoux
(I may have missed some lurker. Sorry if that is the case.)

Everyone in this group agrees that Avalon is, and has been for a long time, 
suffering from social illness. The meeting was scheduled to try find a 
solution that everyone can work with.
Most of the Fortress-proponents (a.k.a. "Gang-of-Nine" and "Light-weight 
camp") agreed that there was no real difference of keeping Fortress at ASF 
from moving it to CodeHaus, other than the automatic split of community and 
resolution of social illness. Noel's proposal of a Fortress TLP had slightly 
better support than an Avalon without the Merlin-proponents (a.k.a 
"CitySlickers" and "Heavy-weight camp").

The attendees came to the following consensus, being the most viable way 
forward, both technically and socially.
  * Merlin TLP is to be formed.
  * Fortress/ECM TLP is to be formed
  * Avalon becomes the neutral collaboration forum
  * Each project depending on Avalon has a representative in Avalon PMC.
  * Each container project has an additional representative in Avalon PMC.
  * J Aaron Farr remains the Avalon Chair.
  * Avalon Framework, LogKit, Cornerstone and Sandbox  stays 
    within Avalon at least for the time being.
  * Excalibur+Fortress (already in the same CVS module) is moved to the
    Fortress TLP.
  * Meta, Repository, Util, Merlin, Composition, Activation is moved to
    Merlin TLP.
Noel's initiative was edited 
frequently afterwards (a total of 30 revisions so far) to formulate the new 
Work on this document should continue.

Unresolved and "Not discussed" issue;
Avalon Logging is at the moment purely used by Merlin, but is rather generic 
and can remain in Avalon. However, currently there is a dependency in Avalon 
Logging on Repository, which probably is not in the interest to remain at 
Avalon. This issue should be discussed separately on the mailing list, and I 
think it will not be difficult to reach consensus on this.

Thank you all for attending, and let's all work in positive spirit to move 

Niclas Hedhman

P.S.  This is a cross-post. Discussions on this should ONLY appear on the mailing list. Thanks for your cooperation.

CC: Avalon PMC List
    Avalon Users List
    Cocoon Development List
    Apache Board

BCC: Gang-of-Nine, to ensure everyone involved receives the summary.

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