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From "Carsten Ziegeler" <>
Subject [Vote] The right container for 2.2
Date Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:53:50 GMT
As you already may have noticed, the Avalon community has a new
roadmap and has a common sense about their future.
This roadmap includes: burying ECM (which is deprecated anyway),
burying Fortress and burying most of the Excalibur stuff in the
long term. The goal is to have one single container which is
Merlin (or based on Merlin).
Please, if you want to discuss the future of Avalon or if you think
that this decision is not good or not correct or whatever, don't use 
this thread or the cocoon dev list. Go to the Avalon dev list please
and discuss it with the responsible community. Thanks

Now, we have a lot of experience with ECM. Some of us helped
developing it and we are using it for so long that there isn't
really a problem for us with ECM. So the 2.1.x line has no
problems with these decisions.

But for 2.2 this is a little bit problematic. We started with
the move to Fortress which is now officially dead. Unfortunately
the move is not finished and even if it would be finished,
we would be incompatible wrt to configuration to 2.1.x. So there
is imho a lot of work to do to get Fortress properly running
for us (note "for us", Fortress is running very well but not
that compatible to ECM configuration). So actually, there is 
not much sense to continue this work as we have not much knowledge 
of Fortress. We recently started digging into it.

On the other hand, we don't have any knowledge of Merlin now
and Merlin is currently not compatible to ECM (or more
precise to the configuration ECM uses). So moving to Merlin
would result in the same situation as moving to Fortress.
And in fact it would be more difficult for us as Merlin is different
from ECM/Fortress in it's design and implementation.

Our 2.2 release is not about using the best container available,
the release is about implementing blocks. This implementation
is container independent, so it shouldn't play a role what container
we use for blocks. In addition 2.2 is now independent of the
container implementation as well, so it doesn't play a role
for the 2.2 core. We could simply switch to any container if
it supports the old ECM configuration style to 100%.

So, it seems, the best way to move forward and get into blocks
development is to revert to ECM in 2.2 for now. This is a very
simple work as 2.2 is container independent. It would 2.2 make
immediately usable and compatible to 2.1.x and we could focus
our development effort on blocks - which is imho more important
than focusing it on container development.
If during blocks implementation the need for a better container
arises, we could switch simply to any container supporting
the ECM configuration style.

And: if noone volunteers, I can do the move to ECM over the weekend.

So, please cast your votes - and please, now flame wars about Avalon
this time. Thanks.


Carsten Ziegeler 
Open Source Group, S&N AG

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