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From Alan <alan-cocoon-...@engrm.com>
Subject Re: Momento and Cocoon
Date Mon, 01 Mar 2004 23:59:24 GMT
* Joerg Heinicke <joerg.heinicke@gmx.de> [2004-03-01 22:48]:
> On 01.03.2004 23:36, Alan wrote:
> 
> >>>>>I would guess that Momento mainly would be accessed through the 
> >>>>>document function in XSLT and XQuery. Saxon use JAXP 1.1 as external

> >>>>>API to the transformerand the URLs in the document functions are

> >>>>>resolved by using an implementation of javax.xml.transform.URIResolver

> >>>>>that is provided by the TraxTransformer.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>The above is somewhat confusing for me. Momento does support the
> >>>>  JAXP API. XUpdate is implemented as a SAX filter. It seems like
> >>>>  Momento would work nicely in as a source, sink, or filter for
> >>>>  SAX events.
> >>>>  
> >>>>  I've imagined that a pipeline would start with a Momento
> >>>>  document and an XSLT trasform or XQuery query.
> >>>>
> >>>>  Something along these lines:
> >>>>  
> >>>>      <map:match pattern="index.html">
> >>>>        <map:generate type="momento" src="momento.mx"
> >>>>                                     xslt="index-document.xslt"/>
> >>>>        <map:transform type="xslt" src="document-to-web.xslt"/>
> >>>>        <map:serialize type="html"/>
> >>>>      </map:match>
> >>>>
> >>>>  (It is easier for me to express myself as a Cocoon user.)
> >>
> >>>It was already mentioned and I only want to repeat it here: Momento 
> >>>should not be implemented as generator, but as source. As Momento 
> >>>returns also only XML just the file or xml generator should be needed. 
> >>>Example:
> >>
> >>You miss the point. Saxon (and in time Xalan) operates directly on
> >>   Momento. One uses XSLT or XQuery to build a document from a
> >>   potentially HUGE Momento document. The XSLT and XQuery documents
> >>   mean that Momento will not even touch parts of the document not
> >>   pertiant to the query.
> >>
> >>   I do not want to generate SAX events and have Cocoon build an in
> >>   memory DOM, and then run an XSLT transform. It misses the point.
> >
> >
> >s/You miss the/I've done poor job of explaining this/
> >
> >    Didn't sound the way I wanted it to...

> No problem, I also can live with the original formulation :) The reason 
> therefor is simply that I did not follow this thread very closely as I 
> had to prepare for some exams.

I do appreciate your interest, especially since I'd like to see
    Momento snuggle right up to CForms.


> Now, what exactly is Momento? I saw it only as something similar to a 
> XML database with maybe some special features. When having XIndice in 
> mind I don't like the idea of having an XSLT or XQuery processor 
> operating directly on it (separation of concerns).

SoC is important.

    The XSLT is not used to style, but as means to perform joins,
    aggregation, grouping, etc. The XSLT is really a query langauge,
    like XQuery. This is just to get right format of a document to
    get the pipeline going, akin to the aggregator.

    SoC is important. I am *not* out to integrate transform and
    generation. XSLT as a query language.
    
        (That is, XSLT opimized to use persistant indicies,
         optimized to load only those nodes necessary, designed
         operate concurrently with other XSLT, XQuery and W3 DOM
         queries and XUpdate modifications. Not a transform, but a
         nice way to reuse your XSLT skill-set.
         )

    I choose Saxon for it's XQuery support, but now I've come to see
    XSLT as a better query langauge.

    I've the combination of data store + query language is a valid
    reason to create a generator, and not, I don't think, a mixing
    of concerns.

> But maybe here I miss indeed an important point though I see your
> point with huge document and memory DOM. You don't need to explain
> the whole thing again if it was already said, pointing to a link
> or a mail in the archives would be helpful though.

I went and updated the Momento project page:

    http://engrm.com/project/com.agtrz.momento/

    I tried to punch up the opening section. Everyone please take a
    look at tell me how it reads. Ask any questions.

-- 
Alan / alan@engrm.com / http://engrm.com/
    aim/yim: alanengrm - icq: 228631855 - msn: alanengrm@hotmail.com

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