Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 25852 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2004 01:44:06 -0000 Received: from daedalus.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (208.185.179.12) by minotaur-2.apache.org with SMTP; 2 Feb 2004 01:44:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 97873 invoked by uid 500); 2 Feb 2004 01:43:45 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 97774 invoked by uid 500); 2 Feb 2004 01:43:45 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@cocoon.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Reply-To: dev@cocoon.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 97725 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2004 01:43:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pulse.betaversion.org) (217.158.110.65) by daedalus.apache.org with SMTP; 2 Feb 2004 01:43:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 11988 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2004 01:43:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.50?) (stefano@66.92.77.230) by pulse.betaversion.org with SMTP; 2 Feb 2004 01:43:51 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v612) In-Reply-To: <401D9969.4010908@mm.st> References: <401D4FE7.10509@o2.pl> <05FE9D5C-54F6-11D8-BA4E-000393D2CB02@apache.org> <401D9969.4010908@mm.st> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-13-742458079; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Message-Id: From: Stefano Mazzocchi Subject: Future of XSP and ESQL [was Re: An idea - transformer logicsheets.] Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:47:01 -0500 To: dev@cocoon.apache.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) X-Spam-Rating: daedalus.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N X-Spam-Rating: minotaur-2.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --Apple-Mail-13-742458079 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 1 Feb 2004, at 19:27, Steve Krulewitz wrote: > Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: >> We are slowly deprecating server pages in favor of more MVC+ >> approaches (that is: flows control + business objects + view >> templates) >> In Cocoon 2.2, XSP will probably move to their own block and removed >> from the core (this means they will still be supported, but not >> considered core technology and not advocated as "the way"). > > I still find the esql taglib to be a very useful and easy way to go > from SQL query to an XML document. If xsp is deprecated, the only > other way to easily do this is the SQLTransformer, but it is lacking > many of the features that the esql taglib has. > > Maybe adding support for iterating through ResultSets in a JXTemplate > might make this easier to do from flow? Or is this already possible? I think that the ESQL logicsheet is the only really valuable and unique thing that we have in XSP, so, yeah, I totally understand your concern. At the same time, I'm more and more convinced that database access should happen at the view level, but should be something that should happen at the 'control' level. This also goes hand in hand with the approach of isolating the sql statements and wrap them around objects. But I also understand that many people out there like SQL and find it really productive and they won't move to one database to another, so they see no reason to go the extra mile of providing decoupling abstractions for their data model. Chris introduced some database connection features in flowscript at one point, but I still think that's going too far and might yield the wrong impression that you should use flowscript for your core business logic (and database access should definately be part of that). At the same time, it strikes me that ESQL was meant to be used with the modular database actions and input modules... it streams for a unification in some avalon component that can do database and resultset manipulation in an easy and predictable way. But not being the database guy around here, I'm not the one to talk about these things so I'll be glad if somebody else wants to come forward. One thing is for sure: XSP is showing its age and we should move forward... but without loosing its value. -- Stefano. --Apple-Mail-13-742458079 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGGDCCAtEw ggI6oAMCAQICAwsi0jANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwHhcNMDMxMTEzMDE0OTU4WhcNMDQxMTEyMDE0OTU4WjBEMR8wHQYDVQQD ExZUaGF3dGUgRnJlZW1haWwgTWVtYmVyMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJzdGVmYW5vQGFwYWNoZS5v cmcwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC2CMYDGJqn0K4hpdDlpgbFlGxlFh2m p5EZyY3cu9nmp2wcl+vGn1Wcc103mshOV7BYHnBnR9CBNI5E/l/S/hKj0jgd0jH9/aKqmExZkLWs C7kCLANKPPDFl/sPGTHnpkQhvUbDjlUZa/h77oVFowBgIZjdJWadNzssPJ5wnGdfuYr+4ZI2xEWj H0tZY6V4TpILRg/jp3F6x/avqjNGBA1KOp6OzXdh0RfvXEMEXDu6AZTD+flQxOjKp+IHtSO7suwk Kg9ffx7Gh2LGKE24sBNE8SEPYHRtchutpQh9YFW30HVgLgq9rM8lUx6JA7D4akj/A2Wc3tr+BBqp Ukvgm3b/AgMBAAGjLzAtMB0GA1UdEQQWMBSBEnN0ZWZhbm9AYXBhY2hlLm9yZzAMBgNVHRMBAf8E AjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAGfFFcM8lPwGLk1c5dHqMMbvR+i9MAWCNVoA2mHloOHW3Lv0 peihvloRht8+lIK4+LpoygMQbeh+piuu/tcP+Z8W0Gee1pPiy0WfDbg5ZHfNvUswUSkoBP/nxL1y oHifBffxIm5IZNIxIj/lfStsMv5X8Tb/+KZY4T+iU/QU5t6UMIIDPzCCAqigAwIBAgIBDTANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQUFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExFTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UE BxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlm aWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lvbjEkMCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhxwZXJzb25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAz MDcxNzAwMDAwMFoXDTEzMDcxNjIzNTk1OVowYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0 ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFp bCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDEpjxVc1X7TrnKmVoeaMB1 BHCd3+n/ox7svc31W/Iadr1/DDph8r9RzgHU5VAKMNcCY1osiRVwjt3J8CuFWqo/cVbLrzwLB+fx H5E2JCoTzyvV84J3PQO+K/67GD4Hv0CAAmTXp6a7n2XRxSpUhQ9IBH+nttE8YQRAHmQZcmC3+wID AQABo4GUMIGRMBIGA1UdEwEB/wQIMAYBAf8CAQAwQwYDVR0fBDwwOjA4oDagNIYyaHR0cDovL2Ny bC50aGF3dGUuY29tL1RoYXd0ZVBlcnNvbmFsRnJlZW1haWxDQS5jcmwwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMCkG A1UdEQQiMCCkHjAcMRowGAYDVQQDExFQcml2YXRlTGFiZWwyLTEzODANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOB gQBIjNFQg+oLLswNo2asZw9/r6y+whehQ5aUnX9MIbj4Nh+qLZ82L8D0HFAgk3A8/a3hYWLD2ToZ foSxmRsAxRoLgnSeJVCUYsfbJ3FXJY3dqZw5jowgT2Vfldr394fWxghOrvbqNOUQGls1TXfjViF4 gtwhGTXeJLHTHUb/XV9lTzGCAucwggLjAgEBMGkwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRo YXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVl bWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAgMLItIwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAVMwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3 DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMDQwMjAyMDE0NzAyWjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUacVxKL1c /73pNcjYKFFTPhxsjzkweAYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMWswaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMc VGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZy ZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECAwsi0jB6BgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzFroGkwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAgMLItIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEABfrBEZ3R vvkI/eJRksx93dbEZgS9R0+9vUjtdN0ftGH2aBHtygT9Bho3Qa/zzAlJpKSQYl3bOHexsqcR+Ped 3/+zkumiOeLf+yUTutO9HR0COkg/LcK7YZyEZD/7dLWTUy6vPHNH6T+EFqiY0yRDLrtqbH8fEhcm j01STi3QzXgxiL4Yn/+EKSvOG3thAGqpg5PoJfd9FvRAc0a/K0VM9Ao676amZnUlPwu8/MMrVBQm PA+EMbQ7zPWcfc4wc1OyZ/BGAGsDaY+lHf5SKFYSYTzbFEFLTn3+y7dKixICnjAg+rI/EyRq9YcR 2/fVwqrLOTvLGUyGKD3YnB+nxnn+FwAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-13-742458079--