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From "Antonio Gallardo" <>
Subject RE: Flowscript and return to pipeline
Date Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:18:49 GMT
Ralph Goers dijo:
> I don't mean to start any kind of flame war here and the following is
> strictly my opinion.
> Actually the statement below is the exact reason I and my colleagues are
> reticent to use flowscript.  I have no problem with using flowscript to
> manage a couple of pages that are linked together  (i.e. - a form to fill
> out followed by a confirmation page). But using it for more than this
> violates the separation of concerns principal that Cocoon strives to
> achieve
> through the sitemap.

I agree.

> It is far too easy to start throwing all your business as well as
> presentation logic into flowscript and soon you'll end up with
> something worse than JSPs.

I understand the point. But don't agree. You are don't take in account the
FOM limitations... here is a interesting mail:

So, imagine the picture where the flow of your web application is
uniformly spread across and client *and* the server.

This is exactly what I'm doing with Linotype and, boy, it's the most
productive system for software developer i've seen in my entire life in
terms of RAD/elegance ratio. (RAD tools tend to write shitty code and
good code was not RAD at all!)

This is changing. With flowscript, Cocoon will ride the wave of the rich
clients by making it *very* easy for people coming from the flash/DHTML
world to hook into the server side... but given the FOM limitations,
those script kiddies won't ruin the architecture with hacks, as they do
when they land in thing slike Struts, for example, where the holes are
covered by best practices, not by real framework limitations.

Less is more.

flowscript makes it verbose and hacky to write business logic in
javascript. it *feels* wrong. Even at a script kid eye.

The full mail from Stefano is here:

Another interesting answer from Marc (Actions vs. Flow):

> This is impossible to do with just the sitemap.

As posted above flow is complementary to sitemap. In fact, as you realize
in the above sentence, this is why Flow was designed. Currently, I have no
idea how to do this without Flow! :-D

> Frankly, I have been concerned with how so much effort seems to be focused
> on moving Cocoon from its sitemap roots to flowscript.

The sitemap is and will be the heart of Cocoon. The sitemap is just being
complemented with Flow technology. Both will live side by side until we
find a best approach.

A sendPage() flow function does not know how to transform a page. The
sitemap is the component that "knows" how to build the page.

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo

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