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From Daniel Fagerstrom <>
Subject Re: [RT] Connecting databases with Cocoon
Date Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:13:49 GMT
Reinhard Poetz wrote:

>After using Cocoon for years I still think we are not very clear in
>telling our users what is the right tool for their needs. Of course this
>depends on their use cases and their skills.
>I see three different "Cocoon & databases" szenarios:
>1. Use Cocoon in enterprise szenarios which are 
>   highly interactive (--> many forms) + data which
>   has to be saved in databases
>   --> use CocoonForms, controlled by the Flow, a
>       business facade written in Java, 
>       O/R-mapping as persistence layer
>   --> or use a tool like XML-DBMS (see Mail from
>       Daniel) as CocoonForms - database binding
>       tool.
>2. Use Cocoon as 'pure' publishing engine
>   --> use ESQL or SQL Transformer (or sooner or
>       later USQL ...)
>3. Use Cocoon 'mainly' for publishing and there are
>   only a few interactive pages that have to be
>   persistent in a database and the user is not
>   familiar with Java (this is for many people
>   a reason why to use Cocoon because they can
>   use XML everywhere and don't need to learn
>   a programming language)
>As you can see szenario 1 and 2 have clear solutions, scenario 3 doesn't
>have. Some use ESQL with the drawback of mixing concers, some use
>SQLTransformer which doesn't make it easy to make
>create/update/delete-applications and some use DatabaseActions which are
>IMO the simplest way but they are not supported by flow and which are
>hidden in the depth of Cocoon (IMHO). 
>IMO we should make the DatabaseActions more general components (...
>shouldn't be too difficult) which can be used from within flow or from
>actions and we should make clear statements what we as developer
>consider as 'best practices' and what are the pros and cons of each
I give some philosophical background to my opinion about this in [RT] 
Cocoon Input Model. My opinion is that Cocoons concern are for 
relational db (RDB) connections is for going form the RDB to XML and in 
the opposite direction.

1a. I think O/R mappings are cool and great for having persistence in 
enterprize applications with Cocoon frontend. I wonder however if they 
are within Cocoons concern area, isn't this more about the communication 
between the Java objects and the RDB? The connection back and forth 
beween Java and XML definitly is part of Cocoons concern area, IMHO.

2. Yes, one definitely needs a SQL-level connection from querys to XML data.

3. I agree that we need a simple to use bidirrectional form/RDB 
connection like the DatabaseActions, but in my opinion they should go 
between XML and RDB and not between hashmaps and RDB. My main intension 
with the XML-DBMS proposal is to start a discussion about finding an 
easy way to go between XML and RDBS.


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