Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 65176 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2004 17:37:01 -0000 Received: from daedalus.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (208.185.179.12) by minotaur-2.apache.org with SMTP; 15 Jan 2004 17:37:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 72617 invoked by uid 500); 15 Jan 2004 17:36:47 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 72548 invoked by uid 500); 15 Jan 2004 17:36:47 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@cocoon.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Reply-To: dev@cocoon.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 72430 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2004 17:36:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pulse.betaversion.org) (217.158.110.65) by daedalus.apache.org with SMTP; 15 Jan 2004 17:36:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 4007 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2004 17:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.2.41?) (stefano@80.105.91.155) by pulse.betaversion.org with SMTP; 15 Jan 2004 17:36:47 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <4006AE99.7030901@che-che.com> References: <1074056016.5794.13010.camel@ighp> <40058CD0.2000704@gmx.de> <1074139557.5793.17651.camel@ighp> <4006AE99.7030901@che-che.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stefano Mazzocchi Subject: Re: [Proposal] add DTDs to Apache website Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:39:26 +0100 To: dev@cocoon.apache.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Spam-Rating: daedalus.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N X-Spam-Rating: minotaur-2.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N On 15 Jan 2004, at 16:15, Juan Jose Pablos wrote: > Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: > > >> Stefano, who has been waiting for some 18 months for somebody else to >> come up with the idea of having forrest pregenerating the .htaccess >> file to do some sort of poor-man multichannel or content negotiation, >> but has lost hope so it's time to inject notion in the system. > > Stefano, who forgot to add that request on Jira, bugzilla or something > similar, because he realized that people is not able to read his mind > :-) nono, you guys don't get it: it was a social experiment about cross pollination between the java/xml world and the httpd world. Forrest, by generating static stuff, is the closest thing to the original HTTPd mindset. All the "fancy dynamic stuff" didn't catch up over httpd, it was simply too painful to write a web application in C and there are so many modules that can be useful all over the place. The rest was modules that glued other languages, but moved away large chunks of the community. So much so that nowadays, very few web-app power users are also httpd power users, because they isolate themselves. Since forrest is now slowly taking over all apache.org web sites, this exposes this project to all sort of different mindsets, I wanted to see how long it would take for stronger httpd interaction to surface, but it didn't happen. It's not criticism to the forrest community, not at all. I would say it's criticism for those coming from a non-java/non-xml world: they failed to provide the input that might have shaped the project in such a way that would have pleased them more. Anyway, since David was ready to propose a massive URL change for DTDs I had to say something and the .htaccess magic is the way I would solve many forrest issues that are now solved with hacky client-side javascript. but, at the very end, I don't really care since i think that static pregeneration of web sites will (very slowly but constantly) die out: all web content will need some form of dynamism. But you need a bridge over this huge and nasty river. And this is what forrest is all about in my mind. -- Stefano.