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From Robert Koberg <>
Subject Re: [OT] Mac Laptops
Date Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:49:14 GMT
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

> On 7 Dec 2003, at 06:29, Robert Koberg wrote:
>> John Morrison wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> Sorry for the off topic posting, but I've been thinking about
>>> upgrading my laptop and you guys have been saying how good
>>> the modern Macs are :)
>>> I was wondering if you'd tell me which Mac you have and
>>> whether you'd buy one again :)
>>> Thanks,
>>> J.
>>> PS, I've never owned a Mac before.
>>> PPS, if you want to email me about this off list; that's
>>> fine too :)
>> If you are intent on doing this I would wait until the laptops come 
>> with a g5.
> nah, that's going to take forever... they want to go liquid cooling but 
> it's still a lot of engineering to do since it's the first time ever.

I guess. I am typing this on my dual g4 800mhz while looking at it on a 
cinema display -- sweet stuff -- and my laptop needs are currently 
minial, so... I almost bought the best available mac laptop a month ago, 
but it doesn't run my app well (with the virtual pc emulation layer--I 

To me, the mac is for play. Again, for me, Linux and Windows have been 
more efficient with regard to time and money.

> Buy an alluminum G4 right now. Buy 1Gb of RAM or any java IDE will kill 
> you ;-)

That does not sound like an endorsement...

>> They are very nice looking from a fashion victim point of view. And 
>> the video chat looks pretty interesting (though I would not get a .mac 
>> account). Sound and video simply sounds and looks much on a mac. 
>> However, the support for java is a pain in the ass. You have to do it 
>> 'their way' with the jdk the ship and update. They do not support 
>> 1.4.2. I switch between osx, windows and linux. Windows is always the 
>> easiest for me with regard to java.
> [not want to start a flamewar, but]
> you gotta be kidding.

Not at all. You must not have upgraded to Panther when it came out. 
Seemingly, Apple did not QA the new OS with regard to java. For those of 
us who faithfully updated our java and then upgraded to Panther, the 
install broke 1.4x java. It is a well known problem which they fixed 
relatively quickly, but...

Java seems like a red-headed step child on the mac... :)

> yeah, you are supposed to do it their way... but their way is actually 
> much better than any other way I've seen out there. 1.4.2 is currently 
> in beta (works great on server side [never had a problem], a few issues 
> with swing and AWT still to fix [eclipse has some areas displaced by 50 
> pixels, bah)

you mean beta for OSX, right?

How do you test a java app with different JDKs on the OSX?

> macosx is the only operating system where you can run a client side java 
> application *without noticing* it's a java application. [they even have 
> a tool called "jar boundler" that packages jars for mac] double click 
> and go... all the fancy icons, java menus on the top of the screen, even 
> aqua brushed metal look. Sweeeet.

Yea, I like that.

> As for server side, just type "java" from the command line, how hard is 
> that?
> Yeah, your JAVA_HOME is
>  /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/[version.number]
> instead of
>  c:\java\[version.number]
> big deal.
> Ah, did I mention symlinks? try doing that on windows.

Look, I am not anti-OSX. I just like some flexibility.

I find it very strange that such pro-OSS software folk are so gung-ho 
about such a closed system...


> -- 
> Stefano.

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