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From Joerg Heinicke <>
Subject Re: Problem with CVS of Cocoon-Documentation & an AuthoringQuestion
Date Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:50:17 GMT
On 01.12.2003 14:18, David Crossley wrote:

>>>>>Another solution that came to my mind is pointing to a web URL like 
>>>>> This would also make 
>>>>>validating possible in editors that don't understand catalogues.
>>>>this seems to be a good approach for me.
>>>Would it be acceptable to infrastructure@ apache? It is not just
>>>one simple DTD you are downloading, there are many included bits.
>>>I do not agree with the approach. Cocoon has encouraged people to
>>>use the entity resolver. We should not join their bad practice.

What's exactly the problem with it? In most (?) cases the entity 
resolver would jump in. Only when a parser does not understand the 
concept of the resolvers, the live access would jump in.

>>Ok, you suggest using an entity resolver. Of course this is
>>a good solution, but you can't change/force tools to use it.
>>And a usable DTD needs a defined URI and at least a defined
>>place where to find this DTD (which could be the defined URI).
>>But only defining a URI and then saying, "get the DTD from
>>whereever you find, maybe CVS in directory bla/blub/xyz/..."
>>seems not very user friendly for me.
>>So, I think we should a) define a URI, b) place the dtd
>>at that URI and c) encourage to use the entity resolver;
>>but without steps a) and b), the whole thing doesn't make
>>sense for me.
> Then why have Cocoon and Forrest blundered for this long
> with the way things are. There must be a good reason.

There is no reason for going this step back. But a reason for providing 
useful fallbacks.

> Also if people are working with Cocoon documentation, then
> they already have the DTDs with the distribution.
> Here is an alternative. We could go back to having the hard-coded
> ../../dtd/document-v10.dtd type of System Identifiers and set up
> the entity resolver to have a catalog at the top-level of xdocs.

But this would again not work for the CVS - which was the reason for 
this thread :-) At the point "../../dtd/document-v10.dtd" you won't find
a DTD, but a HTML file about the CVS data of this file.

> That is preferable to retrieving a mass of DTD stuff across
> the network every time that someone looks at a document.

The question is - and I can't answer it - are this really masses?


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