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From "Antonio Gallardo" <>
Subject Re: [OT] Mac Laptops
Date Mon, 08 Dec 2003 03:00:29 GMT
Gianugo Rabellino dijo:
> Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>> Why a Mac when you can get a more powerful machine with an Intel or AMD
>> processor with the same money?
> It's not the same money actually. Have a Mac with you for a few days,
> and then start wondering about the time you're saving since thing just
> work. I did the math: given what is my cost to the company, to recoup
> the investment from a 999€ Intel crap to a 3000€ Mac machine it would be
> just enough to save a couple of minutes a day in two years... which is
> more or less the time it takes for my poor Linux laptop to boot and be
> operational, since the crappy ACPI support in my current kernel doesn't
> allow me to suspend it.

You talked about a poor Linux laptop. This is not our case, but I will
take the 2 minuts that is too much for me (my notebook takes 1 minut or
less to start). But, we will assume the poor linux notebook as a fact. So,
based on the above, lets do the maths:

1 year = 52 weeks, if in any week we have 5 working days then we have:

52x5=260 working days in a year,

Based on the 2 saved minuts (because the Linux start), then we save in one

260x2=520 minuts in a year or 8.66 hours per year. A little bit ore than a
standard working day per year.

In 2 years we have 17.33 hours. That means if we "save"

3000 - 999 = 2001€ (buying the Intel crap) in this 2 years it means you
need to have a pay of:

115.46€ per working hour just to match the maths.
In US dollars it means:

US$ 138.55 per working hour.

I have not included in the maths, the fact we can also store the money in
a bank or buy a faster computer.

Sorry guys, but in my poor country this numbers are too high and out of
the reality. We cannot afford this type of "saving" in fact it is not
saving at all for us. With our rates for sure, lets people waste the 2
minuts. So, we better stay buying Intel or AMD craps. It looks like an
advantage for us. ;-D

The fact for me is: I prefer to buy a far better and more powerful Intel
crap with enough memory (1 GB of RAM or more). For me, the speed matters.
I don't care about restarting the computer (BTW, I never turn off my
notebook when it is in the same place - sometimes it means a week or
more). I just close it.

Why Apple fans always try to forgot the fact: Intel or AMD craps are
faster in the same space and time than Gx processors? And try to hide this
fact it behind the OS arena? I know, in hardware, it is not an MHz. issue.
But Intel and AMD craps are in fact faster and cheaper. In short you get
more for your bucks. :-D

I still have present the Stefano projection in 8 or more hours for
converting to DIVx a 45 mins long conferences of GT2003. This is not the
case on my Intel crap. I did a similar work with a 90 minuts video with an
old AMD crap and it was a matter of 2 hours. Maybe the cheap RAM of my AMD
crap allow doit faster. Saving me 3 hours of the 8.77 hours I waste
restarting Linux. So I can not care about the 2 minuts of the Linux start.
Stefano would save time and money with an Intel crap with more RAM.

BTW, the AMD crap I used was buyed for just US$600.00.

Can we agree with the above?

I am sure all of us can agree the OS is another part of the history. Of
course an important pat of them, but since the new MacOSX is based on BSD
(that BTW, it can also run on Intel or AMD craps). I don't see the problem
of using BSD on both of them. Or (as is my case) Linux.

For the applications (BTW, this is same argument as MS). My experience is:

We have more than a year to run our company on Linux. All is Linux based
and as you we live in a MS world. We need the share docs with our clients,
we need to develop for them, etc. We managed it successfully.

Fortunately, we have a bunch of good applications running on the Linux
side that we can currently use and are going better and better very fast.
I wonder how they will be in the future. The advantage of using them right
now is that you can "influence" the development of them (not the case with
closed software as MacOSX or Windows). At the end it is not a casuality of
the BSD root of MacOSX.

For me, OSS is here to stay and many of us are betting the farm in OSS. We
did the transition to the windows world and I feel guilty of it. I still
have in my mind discussion about Novell Netware vs. Windows NT and by this
putting in risk my job. I was on the NT side of the discussion. Now we are
trying to rectify this by trying to do the transition to the Linux world.
This is how I see the things.

>> If you concerns are about speed, stability and realibility then use
>> Linux.
>> I currently use Fedora Core 1 with great results. Also you can have the
>> same machine with dual boot just in case you need to go back for a while
>> to the windows world. So 2 OS in 1 machine! ;-D
> No way. I've been using Linux for one year now, and while it's of course
> better than Windows, still my life is way too much troublesome: maybe
> I'm just getting old, but I have very little time for "metacomputing"
> these days, and I'm just too lazy to recompile my kernel and go through
> dozens of hoops to finally get decent ACPI/APM support.

Hmm. I am with you. I never needed to recompiled a kernel I my life. As I
stated before I currenlty use the Fedora Core 1.

> I'm fed up with library clashes.

Never seen this. Can it happen at all? :-DD I know it can happen, this is
why I very carefully choose the application to use.

> I can't stand anymore the Gnome/KDE foodfight. I'll
> start screaming at the next VmWare boot to open the damn .doc file that
> OpenOffice just spits out.

The OOo is here to stay too, the more that 21 millions of download in the
few years of his existence is a respetable number. It is improving with
the time and in fact the new 1.1 do it better than before. I recommend you
to give it a try.

Why a german city and other in Europe are migrating to Linux and OOo? Why
they are not tying to migrate to MacOSX if the "saving" fact is true? I
guess you live in Europe, right? :-DDD

BTW, I know OOo also run on MacOSX. I participate in OOo spanish edition too.

> Look, I've been (and still am) a huge Linux
> fan and user from 1993, and today I'm perfectly fine with Linux on
> servers and workstations, but I'm dying to have a Mac as a laptop. You
> see, I'm sold to the "it just works" paradigm...

My notebook with Linux "it just works" too.

>> BTW, Mac OS X is a Linux based distribution for the Mac processors with
>> a price included. They use KDE as the desktop environment.
> Uh? Come on Antonio, this is just blatantly untrue to say the least: OS
> X roots are in BSD, not Linux, and KDE has nothing to do with the great
> Mac UI... stop spreading this misinformation, or some hardcore OSXers
> will start biting you. :-)

OK. The above sentence was too much. But true is that some applications
are KDE based, is this correct? I think Safari is one of them or use some
of parts of KDE: Safari.

Note, I cannot disccuss too much about MacOSX, but I read some about them
(maybe not too much). In fact it is a UNIX-like system as BSD or Linux.
That was the point to me.

I know it is very far OT, but I think it is important too. Not everything
is bad in the Intel AMD crap arena. Apple always was and is a very
expensive machine. People in countries like my country (very poor) cannot
afford them). It is not casuality that I just know very few people that
use them and mainly in publishing. They have hard time finding techniks
for the computersm because the market is very small. I guess there are no
more than 300 machines in all the country. And I just know 1 company that
sell services to them. Of course this is not cheap too.

On the Linux side maybe the situation is similar, but it is very fast
improving. Why? because we use the same cheap craps to use Linux. As I
stated before, I am part of the people trying to do the migration to
Linux. But, I think there is a better Linux situation in your countries.

At least, in the OS arena in future I see a Linux world but currenlty I
cannot see an MacOSX world and I am betting the farm in this assertion. I
hope I am not wrong with it.

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo

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