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From "David Rogers" <>
Subject RE: XSP "official" position
Date Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:26:24 GMT

Regarding the comment on needing English skills...I can help out there.
I fancy my self a bit of a tech writer. I have "fixed" just a bit of
snuff in the wiki but don't want to write anything there that is incorrect.

I bet there are a few others that could help as well.

I am fairly knowledgeable in java/xml/xslt but fairly new to cocoon and oss.

I would gladly work with those more knowledgeable in cocoon
to clean up/flesh out some of the existing docs and even create
some new ones.

(for example I'm kind of interested in the error handling right now ...hint

I was thinking it would be nice to just move the "User Guide" on the
main site to the wiki and basically combine it with the "Cocoon Guide".
I find it a bit confusing having the two sources, and having to memorize
which docs are where. Actually, I guess the whole "Documentation" Section
on the main site could go to the wiki.

If you have something written (in english!) I can proof read it for you
and send it back with questions.

Alternitively, I can just start asking the list whatever questions I am
and make documentation for the wiki out of the replies.



-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Gallardo []
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: XSP "official" position

Tony Collen dijo:
> Not their fault... our docs aren't the shining model of project
> documentation :)  I was reading a weblog of a guy who had really hard
> problems getting Cocoon up and running, and he mentioned our docs suck.
>     I'm aware of this, as I'm sure everyone else here is.
> Another problem is that IMO we need more articles written and published
> on other sites (i.e.  Getting some docs written up on our site
> is good, but getting exposure elsewhere is crucial.
> We need marketing! :)

Yep, I agree. And I think people with more english skills can help us
here. Sometimes people does not realize how hard can be english writing
for some of us.

>>>Actually on the site there is no particular
>>>endorsement of XSP, but there not either a word of warning about this
>>>approach being "deprecated" in favor of the flow idea.
> We need to figure something out with the docs, we're rapidly gaining
> water in the hull and sinking fast.
> <snip/>
>> I think we will continue supporting XSP because Cocoon can be used as
>> Web
>> publishing framework or a Webapp framework. Also XSP is a good entry
>> point
>> for many people from the ASP, PHP world. They feels like fish in the
>> water
>> with XSP. :-D
> I think XSP is an OK jumping-off-point for people wanting to write their
> own custom Generators.  However, learning XSP and then learning how to
> write a custom Generator is probably the same amount of work (maybe I am
> wrong).

Hmm. As you pointed before there are alternative generators. I never wrote
a generator in my life. I use:

jx generator and file generator. Before I used XSP generator. Now I am
avoiding use XSP generator at all.

>> I really no wonder why peope still think XSP is the great Gig in the
>> Cocoon town, because if you google around you will feel this is the way
>> Cocoon goes. To be honest I don't google about this for a long time but
>> still early this year this was the tendency.

> It's probably got more attention because it's a TLA and sounds like ASP
> or PHP or JSP.  XSP.. X?  Cool!  "Flow" just doesn't have that catchy
> ring to it.  But that is not a problem I think.

Nope. I think, It is simply, because it is older than the others.

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo

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