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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: Groovy language for XSP
Date Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:52:41 GMT

On Monday, Nov 3, 2003, at 12:11 Europe/Rome, Sylvain Wallez wrote:

> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> <snip/>
>> Pretty cool stuff. If they add continuations, I'm all for throwin 
>> rhino down the drain.
>> [at least, from a community perspective, we wouldn't be basing our 
>> entire architecture on branched code of a almost-dead community 
>> hosted in a location that doesn't care about java]
> Scary statement, but unfortunately so true...

Before everybody goes wild and crazy, let me rephrase.

As Chris said a while ago, we are, as a development community, much 
more active than the Rhino one. The license is compatible, the codebase 
under CVS, versioned, controlled and all that.

There is *NO* chance that the code is going away or dying out because 
we control that branch.

 From a community perspective it seems "weird", but it's not a danger on 
our future.

Open source works out of friction and environmental pressure. If nobody 
merged continuations back into the main trunk is because nobody really 
cared. If things change in the future (say Rhino gets major 
contributions over at that we can't move over), pressure 
will change and actions will be taken.... even more today that we are 
basing our code on it.

It's like saying that we are basing our entire code on Java, which 
could be dead in a few days if Microsoft puts a few billions of their 
40 they have in cash into the table and buys Sun.

*this* is scary.

but nobody is working on a clean-room JVM just to avoid that fear.... 
just like you don't go around with a iron umbrella to avoid the 
possibility of a metheorite striking your head.

What I'm really saying is that it is an uncomfortable situation, but 
there are other situations that are much less comfortable to me.

And Torsten is definately right: if javascript is hard to sell to your 
customers already, imagine something called "Groovy". that's scary as 

but anyway, Groovy is not an interpreted language, so, for now, unless 
they resort in using Brakes-like bytecode mangling hacks (which, IMHO, 
kills your performance dead), it's hard to see a future in the 
continuation realm.

But I would love to see it happening just to see what Darwin gets out 
of this.


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