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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: followup (offlist)
Date Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:56:34 GMT
Talking about 'upps'...

On Thursday, Oct 2, 2003, at 06:10 Europe/Rome, Stephen McConnell wrote:

> Geoff:
> Just wanted to followup with you on the subject of 
> Merlin/Cocoon/Avalon/Blocks/etc.
> A few weeks ago there were several users@avalon people pushing for 
> greater collaboration with Cocoon on the Merlin/Cocoon block question. 
> That was the stimulus for taking a more proactive role in pushing 
> information out to the Cocoon list about what Avalon is doing.  On the 
> otherhand I'm kind of getting a sustained message "go away while we 
> sort this out ourselves" - and I don't want to appear to be pushing 
> something that isn't wanted.

I am, personally, not interested in collaboration at this point, no.

I see nothing to gain. No code that we can use "as-is", no design that 
fits problems that we haven't yet solved.

On the table there is just "compatibility" between Avalon Blocks and 
Cocoon Blocks. Which is something that might not be needed by the 
community at all.

This is why I asked to allow compatibility to happen in the future, 
would the need arise, but suggested to let the two communities 
independently come up with something that works first.

> I was wondering if you could give me some "private" feedback. In you 
> opinion should we be working towards Avalon/Cocoon collaboration or 
> should we simply come back in a year or eighteen months to see what is 
> happening?

That's what I suggested.

>   If its collaboration then some concrete things need to be considered 
> on the Avalon side and communication channels need to be established.  
> If not - there are migration issues related to ECM/Fortress that can 
> take a back seat in favour of other priorities.

? you are mixing concerns. migrating ECM to Fortress has nothing to do 
with block support.

> In the overall Avalon picture this has to be addressed as we move 
> towards a single Avalon solution - in the shorterm - the Cocoon/Avalon 
> relationship feels kind of mixed.

Cocoon is using the Avalon Framework, ECM and some Excalibur components 
(some of which are maintained entirely by cocoon committers). Nothing 

Should we use more? if it makes sense, yes.

Why should we spend months in trying to come up with a solution that 
makes both Avalon and Cocoon happy for blocks instead of just 
implementing a design that we already spent almost a year designing? 
for what?

> Any thoughts that would maybe give me a clue on direction?

Anyway, the above is *my* personal vision. I would like to hear what 
others think as well.


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