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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [RT] Sitemap inheritance
Date Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:57:46 GMT

On Sunday, Oct 26, 2003, at 23:51 Europe/Rome, Gianugo Rabellino wrote:

> Geoff Howard wrote:
>> Gianugo Rabellino wrote:
>>> In short: blocks should ease a Cocoon developer's life, and block 
>>> assembling should belong to the "programmer" domain. Normal users 
>>> should see only benefits from it. Or am I wrong?
>> I believe that the benefits from real blocks will be so monumental to 
>> the way people work with Cocoon that every application should be 
>> packaged as a block/group of blocks.  Much of the pain of developing 
>> with Cocoon (more than the first little tinkering) goes away.  We 
>> need to make sure blocks are not scary to people,  but I don't think 
>> this is going to be difficult.  I'd propose waiting until we have a 
>> first working draft before further investigating alternatives which 
>> replace blocks.
> Just to make things clear: I'm not advocating an alternative to 
> replace blocks, I'm a strong fan of it. I just think that blocks 
> should ease development of Cocoon apps, while not becoming the only 
> way of working with Cocoon. In the upcoming future I see lots of 
> blocks being interconnected by traditional sitemap editing as we're 
> used to it now.
> Sitemap (better: pipeline) inheritance goes in this direction: it's 
> perfectly OK and cool to have it within blocks, but I don't see why it 
> should not be possible even outside them. So I'm not stating anything 
> that goes against blocks: I'm just looking for a way to ease the final 
> user experience with Cocoon. Keeping in mind that the majority of 
> users won't make blocks, but rather just use them.

I'm sorry, but this seems to me like stating that even if the java 
libraries are well object oriented, we have to make sure that people 
can write C-like code with them and make it easier for them to do so.

As java go *exactly* the other way (make life easier for people that 
follow OO patterns), and it's one of the reason why I like java and the 
community around it (I dislike when they get to religious about it, but 
that's another story)

why shouldn't we do the same?

I know it's impossible for a system to "teach" people how to program, 
but for sure I can make their life a little harder if they are going in 
the direction that this community is not following: this will force 
them to look around for better and easier ways and we'll make sure to 
make their life easier if they follow our practices.

I suggest we make it easier for people to write blocks, not give them 
shortcuts to go around them and consider them obstacles.


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