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From "Michael Lipp" <>
Subject Re: Disappointed about avalon usage
Date Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:26:19 GMT
> Now an important point is that you aren't disappointed by Avalon (its 
> concepts and the implied benefits), but by usage mistakes in a 
> particular usage of it. Am I right ?

Clearly, this is a misusage. As Avalon is concerned in general, I'm 
still considering. I'm responsible for development projects with 3+ 
developers. We are doing a lot with J2EE etc., so you couldn't call us 
unexperienced. Still, I have remained hesitant about adding Avalon to 
our "tool-box" because I have the feeling that the implications of this 
kind of design are very complex (the "mistake" being a confirmation of 
this) and that we would end up with an example of bad Avalon usage that 
wouldn't stand a review.

I had to learn Avalon concepts when I started my XForms processor for 
Cocoon ( and failed at various places, 
especially when I really tried to re-use pooled components from Cocoon 
(2.0.4, btw). It is not easy to really implement proper cleanup and it 
takes a lot of testing and I found that Cocoon often does not take 
advantage of a component being a pooled component and so there was 
little implicit testing and so some Cocoon components are buggy in this 
respect (sorry I cannot give you specifics, when I encountered this kind 
of problem, I simply switch to plain old "new" because I had my 
development goal in mind).

The only thing I find really annoying is that I have to pass a logger 
into every class that is not a component (instead of simply declaring 
the logger as a static member like I do with log4j). As a result, I 
often used System.out for debugging and then deleted the statements when 
everything worked which is, of course, the wrong thing to do. I'd have 
to think of something there if I had to do a larger project with Avalon.

Anyway, this is just because you asked me "publicly" and so here is my 
"public" response. I assume this is not the right list to discuss Avalon 
and I don't want to be flamed ;-)

  - Michael

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