Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 66542 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 10:18:36 -0000 Received: from daedalus.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (208.185.179.12) by minotaur-2.apache.org with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 10:18:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 19360 invoked by uid 500); 20 Sep 2003 10:18:03 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-cocoon-dev-archive@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 19310 invoked by uid 500); 20 Sep 2003 10:18:02 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@cocoon.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Reply-To: dev@cocoon.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@cocoon.apache.org Received: (qmail 19292 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2003 10:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ags01.agsoftware.dnsalias.com) (216.6.48.60) by daedalus.apache.org with SMTP; 20 Sep 2003 10:18:01 -0000 Received: from ags01.agsoftware.dnsalias.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ags01.agsoftware.dnsalias.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h8KAIEd1028143 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:18:14 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by ags01.agsoftware.dnsalias.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8KAIEVI028141; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:18:14 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: ags01.agsoftware.dnsalias.com: apache set sender to agallardo@agsoftware.dnsalias.com using -f Received: from 10.0.0.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user agallardo) by ags01.agsoftware.dnsalias.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:18:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <33469.10.0.0.5.1064053093.squirrel@ags01.agsoftware.dnsalias.com> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 04:18:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Open support vrs. Company support (long!) From: "Antonio Gallardo" To: In-Reply-To: <3F6AC51F.7090108@anyware-tech.com> References: <33870.10.0.0.5.1063943257.squirrel@ags01.agsoftware.dnsalias.com> <3F6A8BE8.6060801@umn.edu> <3F6AC51F.7090108@anyware-tech.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Rating: daedalus.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N X-Spam-Rating: minotaur-2.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N Sylvain Wallez dijo: > Tony Collen wrote: > >> Antonio Gallardo wrote: >> >>> Hi: >>> >>> I want to point out what really means Free Maillist Support. >>> >>> At first sight when we said Cocoon has support trought free maillist, >>> it seems like it is less than Company Support. Many of us saw this as >>> a lack >>> instead of a feature, just before we make the first taste of the >>> Cocoon's >>> free support feature. >>> >>>> From my point of view Open support means: >>> >> >> >> >> I didn't have any specific replies because it's all good, so I'll add >> some more thoughts, slightly on the "Devil's Advocate" side of things. >> >> When is commercial (or 'professional') support desired, compared to >> the "free" kind? >> >> I'm sure the members of Orixo can answer this one :) It's a tough one >> though. The notion of professional support is relative, since many >> of us are not here as a result of our jobs (me, for instance). Sure, >> we're all professionals in one way or another, but I'll limit my >> definition to refer to people who are directly supporting Cocoon for >> money. > > > > > I have found several reasons that led our customers to ask for paid > support (I prefer to say "paid" support as "professional" implies that > cocoon-users is of lesser quality). You mentioned some of them already : > > 1/ They're not accustomed to using opensource software. They use it > because it's both powerful and free, but are a bit frightened both by > the fact that there's no "real" person they can ask to when they have a > problem and by the information flood in the mailing-list (in clear text, > they're not subsribed to cocoon-users). > 2/ Project-related support. We do architecting, prototyping, guidance, > evaluation and all that stuff that require some minimal knowlege of the > project domain. And this can't be provided by cocoon-users. > > 3/ Training. Cocoon is a large beast with many features, and mastering > it takes time. Training allows to greatly reduce the learning curve. > > 4/ Custom component development. Cocoon allows to build entire > applications without writing a single line of Java. But sometimes a > particular feature is needed, which requires to code new component and > thus requires a deeper knowledge that what the customer doesn't want to > invest in. Being a committer also allows the new component (if generic > enough) to go back to Apache, thus relieving the customer of its > maintainance. > > The "knowledge hub" aspect is not something whose benefits are > immediately perceived. But as most projects use other libraries as well > (and Cocoon comes with a big load of jars), this quickly proves useful. > Coming to us because we are Cocoon-geeks, customers quickly discover > that we're also Ant-geeks, Tomcat-geeks, FOP-geeks, etc. This is what we > call the "Cocoon galaxy". > > As you can see, free support and paid support don't serve the same needs > (except on point 1/) and are complementary. Thanks Sylvain. I just thinked in this first example. Then you showed me that there are other activities that clear can be called support too. Anyway I found a very interesting doc related to this topic (warning: the doc is large too): http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html But related to support, they show that this is not black and white. If you does not want to read all the docs. I can point to the 9 chapter: Unnecessary Fears. Best Regards, Antonio Gallardo.