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From Berin Loritsch <>
Subject Re: on better release and version management
Date Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:16:14 GMT
Giacomo Pati wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>On Monday, Sep 22, 2003, at 16:23 Europe/Rome, Giacomo Pati wrote:
> <SNIP/>
>>I agree with you that even a 'naked cocoon' (a cocoon with no
>>functional blocks) can be further modularized, even if I personally
>>don't resonate with the modularization that you propose above.
> Could you explain why you don't resonate? Is it that you fear
> complexity?
> We're used to Centipede and Maven for some project we've done recently
> and our experience is that indeed a modularisation as I've proposed is
> quite complex with bare Ant as building tool but tools like Maven and
> Centipede are very helpfull for these kinda projects. We just need to
> make the step beyond Ant.

I can second that emotion.  I recently did essentially this modularization
in my GUIApp project, and without introducing special classloader semantics
and such, the result was very encouraging.  In fact my build environment
with that project currently fills in all the gaps, which is very good.

The Maven build system I have works very well, and it is simple to maintain.

>>I think that we should *NOT* try to bite more than we can chew for 2.2,
>>let's avoid doing everything in one huge step or this will take us
>>another 18 months to release 2.2 and this is going to hurt us badly.
> ET ;-)

Ok. So the list of features for 2.2 (and when can we start)....?

>>  1) start cocoon-2.2 with code and existing build system. No blocks, no
> If you suggest starting with just more or less core code why not move to
> another build system we can build a modularized system upon?
>>  2) remove fake block machinery from the build system of 2.2
> Again, choosing another build system will help here as well.
>>  3) implements real block in 2.2
> I assume you mean 'real block infrastructure'.

I am telling you now, that use of a build infrastructure like Maven (or
centipede for that matter), will make this a reality much quicker.
I highly recommend that you start with one of those build infrastructure
tools to make the block machinery a reality.  Most of the work will be
done for you.

One of the things that these tools allow you to do is re-use build sequences.
For instance, we could create a Maven-Cocoon plugin to generate the block
JAR files, which can in turn resolve the dependencies and copy the dependent
JARs into the block (if desired).

It takes a bit to set up, but once it is done, it is done.


"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
  deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                 - Benjamin Franklin

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