cocoon-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Gianugo Rabellino <>
Subject Re: Porting Cocoon Logging to Log4j - Proposal and Discussion
Date Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:34:04 GMT
Robert Simmons wrote:

>>>Actually, I was proposign the removal of the avalon logging mechanism
>>You'll have to provide a very good technical reason for that, much more
>>than "I like Log4J better" or "Log4J is cool". Consider that:
> How about the fact that multiple layers of logging exacerbate performance
> problems intrinsic to logging. Also how about the fact that Log4j is faster
> and far more powerful and flexible in production environments where you may
> want logging to go to a specific server. Also how about the fact that most
> other java products that log use log4j and very very few use avalon logging.

All nice & dandy, but I'd like to see some figures to prove your 
statements: what does "faster" actually mean? Are there any benchmarks 
around? So far the only problem you outlined was the multi-layer 
performance hit. Now, I can't speak for the actual Log4J avalon adapter 
performance, but:

1. are you sure that you can't achieve the same result with logkit? I'm 
succesfully logging to a remote server ATM using syslog, and I have no 
problems with it;

2. JMS logging and performance concerns are oxymorons. Multi layered 
logging would be a breeze compared to what it takes to build and send a 
JMS message;

3. A production Cocoon does not log much. If you raise the log level to 
WARN (or even INFO), you won't get so much logging to be concerned about 
performance. Since (almost) every log statament is wrapped if 
is*Enabled() methods, you will never hit the multilayer performance issue.

> I think about the business applications of cocoon which are far different
> than the open source programming aspects.

>  Avalon is as old as AWT and I think just as outdated.

These two statements are overly aggressive and somehow insulting. We do 
business with Cocoon, and most of us have experience with large sites 
and serious logging needs. Accusing the Cocoon and Avalon committers of 
being childish open source kiddies playing with their toy and not being 
innovative is not a good way to sell your point.

> welcome. Let me be skeptical, though. :-)
> Skeptical is good as long as it doesnt change into stubborness.

Lets make a deal and avoid both stubborness and aggressive attitude 
then. I would suggest you to discuss the Log4J vs. Logkit implementation 
issues on the proper lists and come back here with more evidence. You 
might even convince the Avalon guys to switch to Logkit...


Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. -
Orixo, the XML business alliance -
     (Now blogging at:

View raw message