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From "Jay Freeman \(saurik\)" <>
Subject Re: [RT] Starting 2.2
Date Fri, 29 Aug 2003 18:27:12 GMT

I totally agree on the "evolution" thing. To start, the process of moving to
Subversion would be a repository import, not starting from scratch.

As for tools:
(Subversion plugin for Eclipse, although only on Win32 currently, haven't
tried it as I hate Eclipse; it seems like it could be gotten to work on Unix
easily, just would require compiling the JNI stubs on your platform yourself
and dropping them in as the subclipse people are currently relying on some
precompiled binaries)
(Subversion plugin for VS.NET, a little slow at times, but usable)

They already have it integrated into ViewCVS (which is what I thought Apache
used, might be wrong; there was a lot of impetus to do it as the guy who
originally forked ViewCVS from CVSWeb is one of the lead Subversion
developers). I've been working with the Chora (another web interface) people
and we have it working in that as well.

What I think would be more productive, both for Cocoon and for Subversion,
is to have more than a flat out "no, stick with something that works" but
instead to put forward a list of requirements from a revision control system
for it to be considered an "evolutionary move". Then people who work on
version control know where to apply effort and people working on Cocoon have
a roadmap for their evolution (rather than just getting stuck with existing
systems and never moving).

It's somewhat like deciding to switch to a different underlying framework
for component/block management; one wouldn't want to just say "hey, this is
newer and has one better feature, let's do it", but if that one feature is
crucial enough you'd want to have a list of requirements of a new system
(one that obviously includes everything important from the old system) so
that you'd know when you _would_ be able to move to it and when it would be
worth it.

Jay Freeman (saurik)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: [RT] Starting 2.2

> Yes, you are right, CVS sucks, but the way it's integrated with the
> apache infrastructure and with tools that people use is not.
> there is a huge inertia there. greatly underestimated by the subversion
> people, expecially for people used to IDEs like eclipse that hide CVS
> stuff under the hood and do things automatically.
> I'm sick of this thread. It's stopping evolution.
> Carsten, forget beauty of versioning and let's start working on
> cocoon-2.1 HEAD, this will:
>   1) reduce effort and duplication
>   2) keep people sane since every commit will have to keep the tree in
> shape (it's entirely possible to implement real blocks with what we
> have, without moving things around, even turning the current static
> blocks into real ones).
> So, my vote is: cut the crap, let's work on the thing right here and
> right now, we'll think about what to do later.
> Evolution is always prefered to revolution.
> [believe me, I've made this mistake so many times that I learned my way
> thru]
> --
> Stefano.

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