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From "Roger I Martin PhD" <hypernex...@hypernexinc.com>
Subject Re: "Production" build for Cocoon?
Date Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:26:20 GMT
Hi Stefano,

Sorry to offend you.  I'm now taking a moment to make amends.  If you follow
the email back you'll see that the question raised by Chris is a good one.
The first reply he got was:

> > Ever read the INSTALL.txt?

Thats all he got. I hope we can agree that this is implying that we don't
think he worked very hard at learning by himself first.  Something better
and even more brief if we don't have time is:
Read INSTALL.txt...

The ... implies the author does not have time but is trying to quickly point
out a reference and knows that there is more to it.  Now Install.txt starts
out:
<snip>
Let me guess: you don't like to read verbose docs, right?
Great, this file is for you.
</snip>
Not too bad but definitely not great.  A welcome greeting would be better;
maybe even a url for the email list if the new applier gets into trouble
feel free to communicate.  There are four steps listed.  Then
<snip>
That's it!


Now, you have two choices:
a) close this file and try to hack something out by yourself
b) keep reading
Go ahead and choose option a), but don't complain if you can't figure out
how
to use the cocoon build system for your needs.




Still here? good. You won't regret it.
</snip>

Are these the first words you want a new person to read about Cocoon after
they download it?  Is this the writing style you want associated with
Cocoon?  Do you think this "sells" Cocoon?  Should Cocoon only be for those
new users who have the time and skill to actually carry out choice a?  There
are approximately 50Megs to go before someone has seen all of Cocoon.

There is an activation energy barrier to learning all software frameworks
and APIs.  Do you want to see Cocoon energy barrier so high that it cuts off
a high percentage of new people or reduced by some catalysts(small concise
independent-from-each-other examples someone new can sink their teeth into
or even use as a starting point for a small webapp)?

If none of what I'm saying or asking makes sense then I'm simply sorry to
have riled you and others.

--Roger

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <stefano@apache.org>
To: <dev@cocoon.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: "Production" build for Cocoon?


>
> On Friday, Aug 22, 2003, at 18:05 Europe/Rome, Roger I Martin PhD wrote:
>
> > For Cocoon developers: you need to start thinking of Cocoon as a
> > servlet
> > intended to be used "inside" of your customer's webapp.
>
> For Roger I Martin PhD: you need to start reading the mail list
> archives (or ask) before attempting to read our minds using the
> released software as a starting point. It helps a lot to reduce the
> chance of look like a pretencious ignorant.
>
> > If I opened an M$
> > product out of the box and the way to "INSTALL" it was described as in
> > INSTALL.txt with the results far from "That's it!" I would not
> > hesitate to
> > return it.
>
> In case, we'd immediately refund you and give your money back. Oh, no,
> wait, we are so efficient that you can find your money attached below.
>
> --
> Stefano.
>
>



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