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From "Reinhard Poetz" <>
Subject RE: Porting Cocoon Logging to Log4j - Proposal and Discussion
Date Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:43:27 GMT

> From: Robert Simmons
> "Gianugo Rabellino" <> schrieb im 
> Newsbeitrag
> > Robert Simmons wrote:
> > > Actually, I was proposign the removal of the avalon logging 
> > > mechanism completely.
> >
> > You'll have to provide a very good technical reason for that, much 
> > more than "I like Log4J better" or "Log4J is cool". Consider that:
> How about the fact that multiple layers of logging exacerbate 
> performance problems intrinsic to logging. Also how about the 
> fact that Log4j is faster 

Have you ever done some serious tests that you can claim this?

> and far more powerful and flexible 
> in production environments where you may want logging to go 
> to a specific server. Also how about the fact that most other 
> java products that log use log4j and very very few use avalon 
> logging. This allows a support center to set up a logging 
> monitor stations for system health monitoring.
> I think about the business applications of cocoon which are 
> far different than the open source programming aspects.
> > 1. Avalon logkit can use Log4J as the backend enging while, to the 
> > best of my knowledge, the opposite is not true;
> Then you have a multi-layer logging mechanism which is evil 
> for performance reasons.
> > 2. logging is tightly integrated inside the Avalon 
> lifecycle, which is 
> > tied to logkit. Changing it to Log4J would be painful to say the 
> > least.
> This point I cant speak to. Personally I know so few products 
> that use avalon that I wonder why cocoon hasnt gotten away 
> from it but perhaps that isnt possible. *shrug* Avalon is as 
> old as AWT and I think just as outdated.

could you please fill in:

  AWT : Avalon = Swing : ?

Sorry, I can't take it very serious if someone says we should remove
Avalon from Cocoon. This would be the same if I say you should completly
rewrite a working Swing application in favour of SWT ...

> > But, in case there are very good reasons for it, I guess no Cocoon 
> > developer was ever married to logkit, and a better solution 
> is always 
> > welcome. Let me be skeptical, though. :-)
> Skeptical is good as long as it doesnt change into stubborness.

You say it - I hope it was meant in both directions.


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