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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: OJB and Cocoon
Date Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:26:47 GMT

On Monday, Jul 21, 2003, at 04:26 America/Guayaquil, Ugo Cei wrote:

> Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>> Hi:
>> I already do contact with the Apache OJB community. My idea is to use 
>> OJB
>> instead of Hibernate.
>> Here is the last mail from the communication with the project leader 
>> of
>> OJB community.
>> Comments are welcome. :)
> Being one of the foremost proponents of Hibernate, I'd like to add my 
> 0.02 €.
> I chose to go with Hibernate for our in-house projects some time ago 
> and I'm very happy with it, licensing issues notwithstanding (we 
> aren't distributing any of our code, so we haven't any problem with 
> the (L)GPL, at the moment). In performing our evaluation, one of the 
> most important factors was the perception that there was an active 
> community around Hibernate. This did not appear to be the case with 
> OJB, at least from the website. I'm happy to hear that OJB is 
> progressing along nicely instead. Competition can be a good thing 
> (even though maybe "coopetition" would be better).
> As far as Cocoon is concerned, there is really no reason why we should 
> "choose" a persistence framework over another one. Properly layered 
> web applications should not mix concerns too much between layers. This 
> is why I refrain from accessing any persistence-related code from the 
> view layer. I'm not going so far as to create an encapsulation of the 
> persistence mechanism that would allow me to change it without 
> changing the client code, since I think it would be overkill (KISS!), 
> but referring to Hibernate/OJB/whatever APIs from the flow only, 
> directly or indireclty, is OK in my book.
> In other words, I personally see no benefit in developing a generic 
> framework for tieing views to persistence as a Cocoon block or other 
> kind of component. Let the application developers choose their 
> persistence mechanism (straight JDBC, O/R mapping, EJB, ...) according 
> to the specific application needs and give them the tools (flow) to 
> control the interaction between the Model and the View.

I agree with Ugo that we should not choose *one* persistence framework. 
But I, personally, would love to see a complex webapp that uses a 
object-relational persistence layer shipped with cocoon and we can't do 
that with hibernate.

So I welcome any effort that will allow us to show to our users how to 
use object-relational persistence out of the box.

Ah, btw, given the recent (slashdotted) clarification that the FSF 
believes that the LGPL for java is as viral as the GPL, the hibernate 
people might have a *real* reason, now, to get to a more 
cooperation-friendly license.


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