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From Stephan Michels <>
Subject Re: Java Language Advocacy (was Re: How ASF membership works and what it means)
Date Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:59:17 GMT

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:

> Christopher Oliver wrote, On 28/06/2003 19.19:
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >
> ...
> >> I'm really confused about this SWT thing. On my computer Eclipse feels
> >> slower than JBuilder. And I still have to understand what makes SWT so
> >> compelling and AWT so dreaded.
> >
> > Check out JGoodies' fake eclipse L&F using swing:
> >
> >
> > JGoodies is now open source on
> Yeah, I know, thanks anyway.
> The fact is that SWT is crap. Total crap.
> Ok, now what do we say? ;-)
> In reality, SWT is just a better AWT, that had been stopped because of
> consistency of user interfaces between systems and widget customization.
> If I want to make my widget in Swing it's sooo easy, and I get the same
> interface on all systems. I remember the bad days of AWT in this regard.
> No, Swing sucks because of how it's implemented underneath. If you look
> at the editor code, it's full of events going round like mad, and
> objects being created in abundance.
> For example, here is a system that uses OpenGL to make Swing faster. As
> you can see it's better, but not an order of magnitude as many think it
> may be:
> Just because SWT *may* feel better on some systems doesn't mean that
> it's the answer. The single biggest difference between so-so and really
> great Swing apps is about the way developers handle threading issues.
> Swing is single threaded, and so we see apps that keep blocking.

I programmed AWT/Swing applications a lot in the past. I agree with you
that Swing programming is far more easier than SWT. But the thing of
Swing that brothers me most is that Swing application doesn't match
the look&feel on other systems than Windows. In a Gnome/GTK
environment Swing looks really ugly. Yes, I know JGoodies too, but
I want that my applications adapts the look&feel of the system.

In this sense, Swing doesn't have a change. I know that Sun
support GTK themes in the last JDK, but only an emulation of image
themes not native ones. And that's only because Sun
want to use Gnome 2.x for their workstations.

_This_ is really crap.

My 2 cents, Stephan.

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