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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: [Flow] Preparing the vote - long!
Date Sun, 22 Jun 2003 06:56:22 GMT
On 22/06/2003 6:01 Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

> Both actions and input/output modules were created to overcome sitemap
> programmability limitations. Flow doesn't have those limitations anymore
> so i don't see the reason to keep those artifacts here.
> What do others think about this?

I think the current community and mindshare behind flow is still too 
small to already start deprecating 'old-fashioned hacks' which were and 
still are being (ab)used a lot for the same reasons flow will be 
(ab)used for. Also, the continuations thing appears to be only one 
possible way to address the webapp dev paradigm. I don't think you are 
suggesting an active depreciation, but suggestions like the one above 
seem rather tendencious and suggestive IMHO.

OK, it is only a small quote lifted out of context, but it is a good 
illustration of my worry that flow, being a very interesting approach, 
still is _only_just_one_ approach to attack the given problem domain. As 
much as I'm genuinely interested in continuation-based flow, I think 
flow needs some more real-world usage (like Pier's case) before we 
consider it being part of the core features of Cocoon (on the same level 
of 'streamlined XML processing' and 'the sitemap'). I read the above 
statement as a suggestion into that direction.

If I say 'core', I mean the kind of stuff which you _have_ to use if you 
want to use Cocoon, not the 'blocks vs core' discussion, or 'it has an 
impact on the sitemap grammar'. I'm pretty sure that you don't want to 
see flow added to Cocoon with people openly saying 'ok', but silently 
thinking 'whatever, I'm going to stick to my way anyhow'.

Oh. Do please read this as a neutral observation, will you? I'm not into 
flames. If I'm wrong with my observation, just say so and I'll withdraw 
to my cave. ;-)


Steven Noels                  
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at  
stevenn at                stevenn at

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