Mailing-List: contact cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
Message-ID: <3EB850BC.20205@nada.kth.se>
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 02:18:04 +0200
From: Daniel Fagerstrom <danielf@nada.kth.se>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US;
 rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
Subject: Please start the RT flow again :) (Was: Re: Making reloadability
 more fine-grained)
References: <20030504073737.GC3128@expresso.localdomain>
 <20030504073737.GC3128@expresso.localdomain>
 <5.2.0.9.0.20030505135453.021683b0@leverageweb.com>
 <b97ac5$gn7$2@main.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
...
> I could start the RT flow right now if you guys felt it didn't hurt, but
> since it injects several "taboos" back into the system, I was worried I
> could mislead or hurt the process of getting the release out.
> 
> I will let you decide.

Please start the RT flow again, the list is so boring whithout RTs ;) Is 
it not painful for you holding them of? ;)

<rant>
I don't think RTs are harmful, actually I think it is the oposite way 
around, that your and all other peoples RTs has been completely vital 
for the success of Cocoon this far. You get the feeling that you are not 
just siting by your computer, writing webapps, you are part of a world 
wide community of bright people that together creates _realy_ important 
stuff :) Ok, it also happens to be the best web framework around ;)

I think some of our firmly rooted experiences from software development 
at companies can be misleading for open source software development: If 
you lead a project at a company, by introducing new cool ideas all the 
time it would certainly lead to chaos. One of reasons for this is that 
you have limited personal resources and have to optimize their effort.

In a OS project like Cocoon things are different, even if the number of 
contributors that have deep knowledge about large parts of the internals 
in Cocoon might be limited at a certain moment of time, developer 
resources are not restricted in the same sense as in a commercial 
project. People choose to contribute to Cocoon because they find that 
more important than their other options at the moment, in the majority 
of cases not because they need to do it to get paid.

We are a diverse comunity with lots of different interest areas and 
motivational strategies. It is not at all certain that a call for 
complete focus on geting a release done, and a freeze of all other 
activities, will mean that we get more developers that work on that. It 
might as well mean that those who don't have knowledge or interest in 
the parts that need to be fixed for a release, choose to do something 
else for a while, while they could have been motiveted to contribute by 
reading an RT.

You have said, IIRC, that cool ideas and bad code creates comunities, 
the other combinations don't. If that is the case, which I find 
plausible, is it the best thing to do, to turn of the cool ideas (RTs) 
and make the code even more perfect?

Most of the request for a final release on the dev-list has been, IIRC, 
  because people have problems with convincing customers or bosses to 
rely on alpha software, not because we have problem with Cocoon. After 
all, many of us base our daily work on CVS-snapshots or the milestone 
release and are happy about that. If the code is god enough for us it 
should be good enough for the rest of the world, and if it is not it 
gives them an excelent oportunity to do something about it ;)

The problem is not the product, the problem is the labeling of it. Let 
us change that, and start the RT flow again ;)
</rant>

/Daniel Fagerstrom