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From "Carsten Ziegeler" <>
Subject RE: Regarding Excalibur XMLUtil and Store
Date Wed, 14 May 2003 00:07:20 GMT
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> but I wish the cvs diffs on those modules were sent *here* on cocoon-dev
> instead that on a list where no cocoon developer is subscribed.
> *this* is my point.
Ok, I see your point - but only as a simple note (but I guess you already
know this) - many cocoon developers are subscribed to the avalon list.

> > Perhaps the chance is bigger that a community will be built if the
> > components are in Cocoon, but that's not for sure.
> I would bet on it. Why? well, because itches develop more in a community
> of people that cares about the technology uses.
Yes, in generally I agree with you - but as the components in question
are more or less complete and working I fear that this is not the case.

> > <half joke>
> > With the same reasons, we could move avalon and the container 
> implementation
> > to Cocoon as well, because we care most of the development (especially
> > when you think of the real blocks.
> I'm not joking when I consider writing the cocoon block-aware container
> from scratch without touching avalon code *exactly* to route around the
> avalon community fragmentation problems.
Yes, I know - and that's why I said "half joke" because I like to tend
to agree with you on this one.

> > </half joke>
> > 

> But, just curious: is there any action going on right now to build a
> community around those components?
I really don't know.

> I'm beginning to challenge deeply that notion in my head. Code should be
> where the community cares, not where it makes sense architecturally.
> This said, I'm *dead serious* when I say that I'm considering writing my
> own container from scratch for Cocoon 2.2 instead of using any
> avalon-based one, even if it would be make perfect sense from a purely
> technical point of view.
Ok, I see your point - and I must confess that this makes sense from the
cocoon point-of-view. Hmm, I have to think about it.

> I'm also aware this might create friction between the two projects. But
> maybe this will also shake them up a little. We'll see when the time of
> that comes.
Yes, and I hope this time will come soon.

> > That those components don't have a real community is a 
> different point and
> > can imho not be solved by moving them back to Cocoon.
> I'm tired of debating this. Like all avalon things, they become
> religious and end up in personal deadlocks.
Oh, this seems not to be fair, I don't see a religious debate here
and I don't see a personal deadlock - in fact, if we decide to move
the components back to cocoon than this is ok for me, but I still
think we should try to solve the real problem - also I again must
confess that I'm clueless how to solve that.
So, we could say, if we are all clueless how to solve the problem
in the correct way, we have to choose "the wrong way" and move the
components back. Hmmm, interesting situation.

> I agree: let's move on to more important things.
Good idea :) Perhaps we should simply wait a little bit and see what
happens. Anyway *if* and only *if* we decide to move the components
back to Cocoon, we should do this before a final/beta release of
Cocoon 2.1.


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