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From "Geissel, Adrian" <>
Subject RE: [RT] Towards a new/another Forms Framework
Date Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:50:49 GMT
I've been watching this thread for a while now, and as a regular Cocoon
power-user, I am keen to see a good forms framework. Rob's comments have
prompted an important consideration for such a framework.

Where client-side validation is used, it *must* be matched but a second-pass
server side. This is fundamental to security (also on another thread) -
otherwise anyone can hack a HTML form to submit potentially dangerous
content to the server. JavaScript (or similar) should be seen as a usability
enhancement, not as the defacto solution.

One other [R]Thought regarding a X??Form framework is that data-form-layout
separation needs to be considered. I am concerned with the way that XForms
is integrated into the HTML - relatively poor SoC :( But thankfully nothing
a good stylesheet can't cure!


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Koberg []
Sent: Wednesday 02 April 2003 15:27
Subject: RE: [RT] Towards a new/another Forms Framework


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefano Mazzocchi []
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:25 AM
> To:

> But I also want to point out something that I'll need a lot in the
> future: the XML datatype in a form.
> I would like to be able to submit an entire XML island into a form
> textarea and have the server-side form handler be able to validate it
> against a particular schema.

But that would be invalid markup. It would be better to use a PUT (I am
still using a POST with a hidden INPUT...). We do the XML Schema validation
client-side and just send the updated XML back to the server for storage.

> That would be *KILLER* for serious content management solutions where
> all the data aggregation from the document can be done via javascript on
> the client side directly (and it's pretty dead easy also to make
> transparently portable for 6th generation browsers!).

I am confused. In the previous paragraph you say you want to submit it to
the server for validation. But in the above para you talk about client-side

Why not use some schema dialect (XML Schema seems to have achieved critical
mass???) and add a form namespace that indicates the widgets. You get
datatyping for free.


> This is also why I'm happy to see XMLForm to move into a block: the
> XForm-inflicted mindset is too limiting for what I'm going to need in
> the future for roundtrippable data.
> Stefano.

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